Nobel Peace Prize awarded to European Union

[FANAdeLdF]

The only argument in favour ofthe EU being anti-democratic I've heard rolled out often is the unelected bureaucrat one but that's like saying we don't have democracy in the UK because some civil servants, military officials, governor of the Bank Of England et al are unelected and have strong powers.

 

Not to mention that one of the two Houses of Parliament is completely unelected.

[andygardener]

How does the EU being awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace constitute democracy being bought? OK, I'll answer my question by assuming you think the EU is not democratic but the EU was founded by member governments, has an elected parliament,a commission that is appointed by elected governments, and its councils of ministers are made up of elected MPs. Its Treaties are subject to ratification by the people or parliaments of member states. And most member states today have been dictatorships in living memory and have joined the EU partly as a means of strengthening their own new democracies.

 

The only argument in favour ofthe EU being anti-democratic I've heard rolled out often is the unelected bureaucrat one but that's like saying we don't have democracy in the UK because some civil servants, military officials, governor of the Bank Of England et al are unelected and have strong powers.

 

I could have sworn a couple of democraticaly elected governments were replaced with EU appointees in the last year. Did you not notice? No, because you don't care. That's how easy they bought your interest in democracy, you didn't even notice they took it.

[Longcol]

Apparently it belongs to every single person in the European Union.

I have added it to my CV.

 

:hihi:

[Stoatwobbler]

No, as I was talking about being self-serving and corrupt, not killing people.

 

The sort of attitude that applauds that which is indefensible because some people you don't like realise it's indefensible is exactly why the EU has been able to wreak the damage it has. Democracy? Pah. That can go fly a kite if someone splutters their cornflakes over the Telegraph. You must be so proud to have democracy so easilly bought from you.

 

Yes, one of the many annoying things about the EU debate is that some on the Europhile side of the fence do rely on anti-Tory sentiment rather then making a positive case for the EU.

 

However, with the Eurozone crisis as it is I must admit that I can't really see a good case for giving the European Union the Nobel Peace Prize.

[FANAdeLdF]

I could have sworn a couple of democraticaly elected governments were replaced with EU appointees in the last year. Did you not notice? No, because you don't care. That's how easy they bought your interest in democracy, you didn't even notice they took it.

 

If it's so obvious, name them.

 

You may want to read the very British libel laws that have not been replicated in other European countries first.

[andygardener]

If it's so obvious, name them.

 

You may want to read the very British libel laws that have not been replicated in other European countries first.

 

Italy and Greece. Have you been living in a cave?

[FANAdeLdF]

Interesting. So Silvio Berlusconi's resignation was the outcome of a plot hatched in Brussels, was it ?

 

And I suppose the IMF's announcements had no bearing on the last Greek election ?

[andygardener]

Interesting. So Silvio Berlusconi's resignation was the outcome of a plot hatched in Brussels, was it ?

 

Of course not. His replacement was. Or perhaps you view Mario Monti as the popular choice of the Italian people to lead them?

 

And I suppose the IMF's announcements had no bearing on the last Greek election ?

 

Being mugged by two people doesn't make the other mugger not guilty as someone else was involved.

[LeMaquis]

I could have sworn a couple of democraticaly elected governments were replaced with EU appointees in the last year. Did you not notice? No, because you don't care. That's how easy they bought your interest in democracy, you didn't even notice they took it.

 

I actually did notice. Regarding Italy, both houses, Senate and Deputies, voted overwhelmingly in favour of Monti's cabinet of technocrats. I have reservations about such a cabinet but as both houses voted for it it does have some legitimacy. And you have to ask whether it's doing a worse job than the Berlusconi government.

 

In Greece, there is a coalition government carrying out austerity measures. It was elected and not appointed by the EU as far as I can tell. The austerity measures are being imposed by the EU in exchange for bail-out money but the people carrying out the measures are elected Greek politicians. Ironically the measures are being criticised for being too draconian by the IMF which has done the same things to other economies in the past.

 

Both countries are in trouble because of their respective previous elected governments' corruption, under Berlusconi and Papandreou. The euro has made the EU intervene to impose austerity. There's a quandary there in that democracies are having to be told how to balance the books after years of profligacy they couldn't afford that came about because of elected governments, right and left.

 

As for the Nobel Prize, the parts of west and central Europe covered by the EU are in the longest spell of unbroken peace in modern times (post-Enlightenment). The previous record was from 1871 to 1914. To what extent you can thank the EU for this is debatable but the euro crisis is not a war and can't distract from the award. I think the award reflects on the principles of the EU, rather than on whether it actually has kept peace. After 1945 there has been little appetite for war but the EU has been a club that ex-communist countries could aim for, rather than for more dictatorship or civil war. The war in the former Yugoslavia could have been replicated in other central European states but they opted for EU membership instead.