bhunaboy Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 "What business is it of anyone what I eat, drink, smoke, listen to, watch or read as long as it doesn't infringe on the freedoms of other people?? None of your ******* business." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxx Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Well said Phanerothyme.... I think Sidla's views and many others are very narrow minded It is really, because if everybody was smoking cannabis all the time then there'd be a lot of dangerous people out there. I really think you should hang out with some stoned people and read up a bit more on the science. 'Dangerous', that is a joke ! If you want to be taking this slant on a reason for not legalising dope, then we really should be making alcohol illegal. Alcohol is far more dangerous that dope, yet anyone can go out and buy it. Alcohol, causes damage to your liver, damages the brain, the digestive system, the nervous system and the heart, and it can change personalities completely. I have seen many people turn 'dangerous' from drinking too much alcohol....become very violent and verbally abusive . I also believe that this is because they are probably susceptible to this behaviour, just as someone who uses dope can be susceptible to a mental disorder ie. it is exacerbated by the drug of choice. Now we all know the effects of alcohol and many (included myself) choose to drink it in excess . Therefore, why can we not choose to smoke dope? If people are made aware of the 'very statistically small' chance of experiencing a reaction to dope and it is contraindicated in people who have existing 'mental' conditions, then I really don't see the problem. People deserve the right to choose surely? Ok, so if you want to believe that you may develop a mental disorder from smoking it regularly, then just don't do it. No-one is forcing you. But there are people out there (such as CIDP, MS, cancer suffers; musicians, normal happy go lucky people and depressed people who just want to forget for awhile) who are being forced to do something illegal. What damage are they doing to society by smoking it in their own homes? I feel particularly strongly for the people who are ill and rely on it and have to get it through illegal means. On top of all this, why waste tax payers money on policing this, when there are real problems that the police should be addressing out there. To come out with a statement as you did Regular cannabis use causes mental illness. I'm dead against the legalisation of it. just angers me. Are you a scientist? Even the scientists who do research in this area can not conclude that it 'causes' mental illness. you state There's loads of research that proves that regular cannabis use causes mental illness such as severe depression and schizophrenia. ....I think you'll find in your link that the words used were 'Cannabis *link* to mental illness strengthened' even then the studies undertaken are biased and not statistically viable. There really isn't any real evidence for a pharmacological mechanism leading to these 'mental disorders' however there is evidence showing that people who are predisposed to depression or schizophrenia are more likely to smoke it. Think about it.....and that was also in your article too, did you get bored reading it half way down once you were satisfied with your conclusions? That all aside, there are a lot of benefits to smoking dope....as well as being a fantastic pain relief, it is also a fantastic relaxer for the stressed out people in this world. If more people chilled out a bit and relaxed, maybe the world wouldn't be in such a state!!! (I sound like a hippy now!). Dope also, opens up your mind to deep thinking and music is a wonderful thing! PS. Hope you don't think I am having a go, I'm just putting my opinion out there, we are all entitled to it, same as you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidla Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 There is scientific evidence to prove that there is a link between schitzophrenia and dope smoking. It may not be directly responsible in many people, but if everyone was subjected to cannabis regularly then I have no doubt that the number of people with mental illness will rise. I'm no scientist, and I admit that I'm fairly naive as far as drugs go. However, from past experiance I have seen the effect that cannabis has had on peoples lives. I have never seen someones life change for the better once they have started smoking cannabis regularly, and I think it's ridiculous to suggest that regular cannabis use could improve your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxx Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it! I have also seen many peoples lives change for the better......have a look at my profile and you'll see what I do for a living! I also did some years research as a pharmacologist... At least you have changed your phrasing to 'link' not cause! I'd like to see this evidence you speak of, please post more links as I am interested in this field...If you are refering to a few studies carried out on biased groups of candidates then I'm afraid I don't think this a statistically sound trial and the results are presented in an extremely biased way. Believe me I know how a trial should be conducted in order to make proper scientific conclusions! What interests me is your use of: but if everyone was subjected to cannabis regularly then I have no doubt that the number of people with mental illness will rise Who is subjecting who?? Are you going to be held down and forced to take it regularly??...no, I thought not! As I said in my previous post, please read it again...we will all have the freedom to choose. If we chose to take it for pain relief then that is our choice and if we chose to take it for recreational use then that is our choice, if we chose to take it because we are depressed, again that is our choice, just as it is our choice to get out of our faces regularly on alcohol and damage ourselves more than dope ever would. Do you think alcohol should be illegal by the way? Have a look at the statistics for deaths from alcohol, crimes related to alcohol and violence related to alcohol and compare that to cannabis. Read my post again and try to keep an open mind! I am sorry if you have witnessed friends having a bad time smoking in the past...it does and can happen, I do not deny that (in a small minority) but at the end of the day, that was their choice and they were obviously willing to do this regardless of whether it is legal or not. I really don't think there would be a huge increase in users if it were legalised. In fact I think it would stay the same (see link below). It is freely available now so people can get it if they want it anyway...if it becomes legal, there may be a slight curiousity increase initially, but the novelty will wear off. Look at the Netherlands, the locals really can't be bothered with it. It is safer out there too as you can't drink alcohol in coffee shops so it doesn't get mixed. And you know what you are buying is good clean stuff. Are there lots of mentally ill people running round causing danger in the Netherlands?? No! Only the tourists who are having a good time! It is a shame that you think it "rediculous that cannabis could improve people lives".....I think alot of MS sufferers would strongly disagree with you there. http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread12464.shtml http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/ille-e/presentation-e/korf-e.htm Back to the original posting.....coffee shops are the way to go....if you don't agree with it, then don't come in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vin rigby Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Thanks to all for your informative postings. I would like to believe that in the near future positive medical benefits can be researched and found for CIDP (chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy) and similar sufferers. The information on 'synthetic cannabinoids' is of interest and I will pass this on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidla Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Originally posted by "Foxxx" Who is subjecting who?? Are you going to be held down and forced to take it regularly??...no, I thought not! True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal. Originally posted by "Foxxx" Do you think alcohol should be illegal by the way? Have a look at the statistics for deaths from alcohol, crimes related to alcohol and violence related to alcohol and compare that to cannabis. Maybe, but it'd be a bit impractical. People have been drinking since the dawn of time. I do think smoking should be banned though. Can't be arsed argueing with the rest of it, it's obvious opinions aren't going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelblade Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Originally posted by "Sidla" True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal. That argument has no validity whatsoever. There is absolutly nothing to suggest this would happen. I am all for legalising cannabis. It makes no sense for it to be illegal. All you're doing is lining the pockets of gangsters and criminals (by this I mean real criminals not harmless pot smokers). Legalise it, take away the criminal element, allow people to buy it without having to come into contact with hard drugs. The "war" against cannabis will never be won, it's time people pulled their heads out of the sand and admitted that millions of people smoke it, enjoy it and cause no problems to society at all, unlike people who get ****ed out of their heads every weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidla Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Originally posted by "steelblade" True, but a lot more people would smoke cannabis if it was legal. That argument has no validity whatsoever. There is absolutly nothing to suggest this would happen. Of course there is! If it was widely available in shops rather than some shadey bloke on the corner, more people would buy it and feel comfortable doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxx Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 refer to my previous link on the legalisation of cannabis in Netherlands. This study showed that there was a stabilisation if not a slight decrease in the number of users once it became legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 It all depends on how much you smoke. If you have the odd one or two, then there is no harm, just like alcohol. But, have too much - just like anything - then it's obviously going to be bad for you. Too much alcohol destroys your liver, too many cigarettes rot your lungs, but they are not banned, nor are you restricted to a certain amount. It's all down to saying you've had enough and stopping, and that is one thing that people in this country cannot do. This is why we have such dire licensing hours compared to Europe. I have just (six hours ago) come back from France. They serve alcohol from 9am to 2am but there are no drunks, graffiti, vomit, discarded food or smashed glass or fights anywhere, because they know to drink in moderation and when to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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