Kersplosh Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 No-one's advocating 'pandering to criminals'- except of course, people like you who support the current position of drugs being illegal, which ensures the production and selling of drugs is entirely in the hands of criminals who, as a result, get all the profits. So, why do you support this "pandering to criminals"?? What a load of TOSH !!! Glamrocker is clearly stating that legalising drugs just does NOT work as the government will tax it to their gains and there will still be a cheaper alternative via the black market (can you still say that on here ?) so why is that pandering to criminals ?? Legalisation of drugs will only lead to those currently sat on the fence, jumping off into a whole world of financial and mental torture.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 To say legalising it all is a solution is abit simplistic, but there are some models of other countries we can look at for inspiration. Switzerland - Heroin is 'legal' is it only available to registered addicts on perscription and only to be used in designated health centres. The program started in the mid 90's after the country became the heroin capital of Europe. Result 60% drop in felony crimes by patients (80% drop after one year in the program). 4% yearly drop of heroin users. The Netherlands, everyone knows cannabis is legally sold in coffee shops and has been for many years. Despite the many reports on how bad it is for your mental state there is no increased incidence of mental health problems in the country (something which is NEVER mentioned in the reports). Taking those two drugs out of the hands of illegal dealers and drug gangs would be a massive blow, as for other substances I am genuinely not sure what to do about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 What a load of TOSH !!! Glamrocker is clearly stating that legalising drugs just does NOT work as the government will tax it to their gains and there will still be a cheaper alternative via the black market (can you still say that on here ?) so why is that pandering to criminals ?? Clearly a sensible level of taxation would need to be set to prevent the issues you foresee. Regardless, even with a black market for things like cigs, the *vast* majority of people still buy regulated and fully duty paid products from shops so there would still be a dramatic reduction in profits for the dealer no matter how you look at it. Legalisation of drugs will only lead to those currently sat on the fence, jumping off into a whole world of financial and mental torture.... Only if they misuse, which is equally true of any drug, be they legal or illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Even if there is still a very limited illegal supply of untaxed drugs the vast majority of criminals would be driven out of the business. For an example look at the drinks industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 To say legalising it all is a solution is abit simplistic, but there are some models of other countries we can look at for inspiration. Switzerland - Heroin is 'legal' is it only available to registered addicts on perscription and only to be used in designated health centres. The program started in the mid 90's after the country became the heroin capital of Europe. Result 60% drop in felony crimes by patients (80% drop after one year in the program). 4% yearly drop of heroin users. The Netherlands, everyone knows cannabis is legally sold in coffee shops and has been for many years. Despite the many reports on how bad it is for your mental state there is no increased incidence of mental health problems in the country (something which is NEVER mentioned in the reports). Taking those two drugs out of the hands of illegal dealers and drug gangs would be a massive blow, as for other substances I am genuinely not sure what to do about them. It's only simplistic if you think legalisation means a complete free for all. The taxes and legalise sale and home growth of cannabis would massively reduce the cost of policing it with no downside. And the free availability of heroin by prescription would save a huge amount of harm and reduce the policing cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Do you drink glamrocker, or smoke, or drink coffee or tea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 What a load of TOSH !!! Glamrocker is clearly stating that legalising drugs just does NOT work as the government will tax it to their gains and there will still be a cheaper alternative via the black market (can you still say that on here ?) so why is that pandering to criminals ?? Legalisation of drugs will only lead to those currently sat on the fence, jumping off into a whole world of financial and mental torture.... There won't be a cheaper market, as long as the govt don't get greedy and stick on so much tax that it's possible for criminals to undercut them. No, the fact is that glamrocker, and everyone else who supports the 'war on drugs', needs to face up to the fact that there are consequences to maintaining that 'war on drugs'. Which include vast profits for criminal gangs who produce/sell the drugs, thousands of deaths, both as a result of those gangs, AND, as a result of overdoses which would cease to occur once a regulated, safe product is legally available. That's right- everytime they read about another 'heroin overdose', reflect on the fact that it was the direct result, not of taking heroin (which, in regulated form is actually pretty safe to take), but of having to take contaminated, street rubbish of indeterminate purity and strength. i.e. that death, and, all the suffering of that individuals family, did not have to happen, and, had the user got access to regulated and uncontaminted product, would not have happened. It, along with all the other misery, happened because of the 'war on drugs', and, I think it's about time those who support it, started to take some responsibility for the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Do you drink glamrocker, or smoke, or drink coffee or tea? I have already stated I understand that some drugs are perfectly legal so please dont question my intelligence on that issue Yes I know the items you state are drugs but therein lies the big difference ..they are legal and my ingesting them is not a crime drugs are illegal and like I said every person who does illegal drugs is committing a crime,the way some are squirming on here trying to make their criminal activities a good thing is embarrassing ,for them anyway.then we have naivety in the extreme ,the government should have a fair taxation rate ,has he been in a drug induced stupor for the past how many years if in the very unlikely event drugs were legalized they would be taxed far more than say alcohol and tobacco...why woulodnt I feel safe living next door to a smackhead ? that has got to be the most inane question ever ,when its well know they would steal off their own mothers to feed their habit.Anything addictive is a negative you usually find anything addictive is a sign of weak will or insecurity so why should drugs be made legal,Im certain they dont benefit the user or indeed society in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 There won't be a cheaper market, as long as the govt don't get greedy and stick on so much tax that it's possible for criminals to undercut them. Pretty much this! If it's not financially viable for someone to buy and sell drugs they won't be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Even if there is still a very limited illegal supply of untaxed drugs the vast majority of criminals would be driven out of the business. For an example look at the drinks industry. Alcohol tax in this country is very high, there is a thriving black market, many people buy black market alcohol from some shops without realising. Black market alcohol is a growing industry. The government is trying to ban alcohol via tax rises. A black market has been born to ensure the people can drink. We have already had to initiate public health warnings about certain lines of product containing methanol, (much like we do with tainted heroin or cannabis sprayed with glass). We need to have our alcohol produced in clean modern factories, with quality/safety standards, not in back street breweries and distilleries run by men motivated only by profit. (I'm not slating the hobby brewer, just the spivs out to make a quick buck because the tax system allows for a thriving black market trade in the likes of spirits and increasingly wine and beer also.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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