Guest sibon Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 We're moving from a world where we've had an enormous supply of free energy stored in the ground to a world where we have to produce our energy in small pockets, on an annual basis, wherever we can. There won't be enough energy produced in this way to replace anything like the fossilised energy we had available and so there will, in the short term at least, be massive profits to be made from selling what little energy you can produce, particularly storable energy fuels. In economics scarcity causes a rise in prices. . That is simply not true, on many levels. We have never produced energy, for a start. It isn't possible to do so. The energy we've used hasn't been free either. It costs in energy terms and in financial terms. We have a huge energy surplus on the Earth and we always have had. The Earth only utilises about 2% of the energy that hits it from the sun. All that we need to do is to work out the best way to use, maybe 10% more of it and the problem is solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That is simply not true, on many levels. We have never produced energy, for a start. It isn't possible to do so. The energy we've used hasn't been free either. It costs in energy terms and in financial terms. We may never have created energy sources Sibon, but I'm sure we do produce them. Petrol is produced from refining oil. Electricity is produced from electromechanical processes amongst others. We need to produce them in order to power our gadgets and gizmos. Compare the price of a barrel of oil with the price of a synthetic barrel of oil and you'll soon spot the point at which the non-synthetic oil is free. We have a huge energy surplus on the Earth and we always have had. The Earth only utilises about 2% of the energy that hits it from the sun. All that we need to do is to work out the best way to use, maybe 10% more of it and the problem is solved. Prove this to me Sibon, show me how it will work on a global scale, at an affordable cost, backed by ample raw materials, a decent EROEI and with no serious consequences (like biofuels had) and I'll believe you. Until you do however, it just sounds like the pseudo-religious technobabble of the hopelessly faithful to me. May as well say that God will show us the way... Perhaps he could at least do something about the current supply shortfall of more than 2,400 tonnes per year in the rare earth minerals used in solar panels and electric batteries- what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 We may never have created energy sources Sibon, but I'm sure we do produce them. Petrol is produced from refining oil. Electricity is produced from electromechanical processes amongst others. We need to produce them in order to power our gadgets and gizmos. Compare the price of a barrel of oil with the price of a synthetic barrel of oil and you'll soon spot the point at which the non-synthetic oil is free. Prove this to me Sibon, show me how it will work on a global scale, at an affordable cost, backed by ample raw materials, a decent EROEI and with no serious consequences (like biofuels had) and I'll believe you. Until you do however, it just sounds like the pseudo-religious technobabble of the hopelessly faithful to me. May as well say that God will show us the way... Perhaps he could at least do something about the current supply shortfall of more than 2,400 tonnes per year in the rare earth minerals used in solar panels and electric batteries- what do you think? We utilise the worlds deserts. By harnessing the suns energy that hits only 1% of the worlds deserts we would produce all the power we need. Molten salt solar power plant uses the suns energy focused by mirrors to melt salt; this would then be used to heat water and drive turbines to produce energy. Photovoltaic Power Station to turn the suns energy directly into electricity and some of this energy would be used to refine the sand to build more. Cars would be run on petrol refined from oil which is produced in the desert by accelerated growth of plankton in large vats of sea water and CO2. The energy could also be used to turn air and water into synthetic petrol, or used directly to charge batteries for electric cars. Large scale wind farms could also be deployed in the desert regions, along with wave power round coastal countries. Whole cities could be heated using Geothermal energy. Geothermal energy could meet a fifth of UK's power needs, Geothermal power stations use water pumped down to hot rocks under the earth that returns to the surface heated, fuelling electricity generation or to be used for space heating. All of this and more can be done now but it is still cheaper to use fossilised power, it won’t be cheaper for much longer and we will stop using it long before it runs out. Scientists are still trying to build Fusion reactors but the test so far required more power in than they got out, but they will continue their efforts and may one day produce all our clean power using micro stars on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Come on Pete. You ask some great questions but labelling people who know what they're on about as elitist, just because their correct and precise answers reveal lack of understanding on your part is a little childish don't you think? Yes I do try to post interesting threads which trigger sensible debate and thought. But I didn't claim from the outset that creating petrol from fresh air was financially viable or efficient. Yet 'those who know better' choose to make personal assaults in regard to my intelligence, and lack of understanding of the science behind it. I'd much rather be labelled elitist than a pratt, wouldn't you?...Is it any wonder I get annoyed? Obelix consistently declines to quote where I actually insulted him prior to him calling me a pratt, and refers to me 'reading it again'. That's because there isn't actually an example of me doing what he claims. Evidently the company developing this process havn't solved any of the fundamental efficiency and cost inplications as yet. I concede that. There is a well known saying that claims 'necessity is the mother of invention'..we shall see. There are many examples of potential inventions being ridiculed and derided, that have subsequently made their way into everyday life!..Or is the earth still flat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'll to you, as I pass you by in the slow lane! I don't know why you are so completely negative about the idea! Do you work for an oil company? This was the 1st post where anyone tried to be funny or dismissive. I don't think Obelix found it funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't know why you are so positive. Are you shilling for this company then? I'm negative about it because it is perforce, utter ******. They havent invented anything new. They haven't overcome the worlds energy problems. They are not creating petrol from fresh air. All they are doing is wasting good energy in the form of electricity to create a fuel that will at best release one eighth of the energy that was consumed in the first place to make it. That's very bad - especially when you can power an electric car far far more efficiently. Now if this was a thermal process using waste heat from a power station, then it would be a different matter. But it isn't. If it was using free energy, like the one referenced in the middle of the US desert that would be a different matter. But it isn't. Even so, his response was just in the same vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 This was the 1st post where anyone tried to be funny or dismissive. I don't think Obelix found it funny. What's wrong with a bit of humour?..Has he had his surgically removed?...You can see the funny side of things in certain threads. Is he so clever that he believes his knowledge is the pinnacle of human understanding of everything? If that's the case then, he is seriously deluded. Someone said (I can't remember who), that they were happy to leave it to the boffins, and his reply was that they knew no more than he did. How arrogant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Maybe you just both missed the humour from the other and reacted badly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T 42 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I can't believe folks are still flogging this dead horse. I know it's a damp day but it was a sunny weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Maybe you just both missed the humour from the other and reacted badly? Maybe so! But I don't believe I'm arrogant. Maybe not as knowledgable as some, but not arrogant!...It's a shame really, with a thread that's attracted more than 200 + posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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