truman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I suppose we currently get petrol at zero cost to get it to the petrol pumps then? Doesn't it take energy to extract it from the ground, pump it to wherever it's got to go. Tansport it on a vessel which uses oil to propel itself, pump it into the refinery. The refinery uses energy to convert it, the petrol tankers use energy to transport it, and we fill our cars with it. So don't tell me it's always going to take more energy than it will ever produce. There aren't any figures to substantiate your claim! .......................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 That would be a small low noise oscillator without phase spurs that is used in a low power radio for watching birds nests in a conservation area to see when their eggs hatch. What have you invented recently? Sodding smart alec! I'll have to find the email address of this company so you can advise them that they're completely wasting their time, as you are the all knowing oracle that said all their work is useless! Why are they bothering to do the research then if it's so blindingly obvious that it's a waste of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 So don't tell me it's always going to take more energy than it will ever produce. There will come a point with oil where there is some left, but it's not worth the energy of extracting it. We're not going to "run out" like there is none left. We're going to "run-out" like it's so uneconomical that we won't try using it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sodding smart alec! I'll have to find the email address of this company so you can advise them that they're completely wasting their time, as you are the all knowing oracle that said all their work is useless! Why are they bothering to do the research then if it's so blindingly obvious that it's a waste of time? The point is that it will save oil but not energy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/scientists-turn-fresh-air-into-petrol-is-breakthrough-a-milestone-on-the-road-to-clean-energy-16226456.html I was on a thread a while ago where I mooted the thought that 'probably' someone somewhere could make a car run with just fresh air. I was soundly derided. Although this isn't quite the same. It's a good as, in my book. Of course it will be years before it's perfected for mass production, but I wonder if the oil companies will try to bury the idea? Burn the oil to generate the electricity to create the petrol? Why bother with the middle step? Like Obelix says, unless the energy is renewable - and only about 8% of UK electricity is sourced from renewable sources, it's pointless. Cars that run on fresh air exist already. http://www.gizmag.com/tata-motors-air-car-mdi/22447/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I'll to you, as I pass you by in the slow lane! I don't know why you are so completely negative about the idea! Do you work for an oil company? He's making a valid point- clearly it does take energy to create the petrol in the first place, and, as any means of burning that petrol is somewhat inefficent, some of that energy will be wasted. There's just better ways of using that initial energy that would be less wasteful. Please don't follow the tactic beloved by conspiracy theories of handling people who disagree with your point by labeling them as 'working for the govt/oil companies etc'; the appropriate thing is to simply point out what is wrong with their argument (if it is wrong, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloke Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Now if only we could find a way to harness the energy created by the heated 'discussions' we have here on the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sodding smart alec! I'll have to find the email address of this company so you can advise them that they're completely wasting their time, as you are the all knowing oracle that said all their work is useless! Why are they bothering to do the research then if it's so blindingly obvious that it's a waste of time? Tell you what Pete, first of all you can stop with the smart-alec comments. We've been through this with perpetual motion before. Try doing a little reading - like this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atkins-Physical-Chemistry-Peter/dp/0199543372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350645864&sr=8-1 and you will know exactly why it's a bad idea. I don't pretend that it's easy to understand all the details of the maths but most things worthwhile do take some work to figure out. As to why do it - because it's easy to bamboozle people who don;t know any better and persuade them to fund something. It's called snake oil and it seems to wrok in your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 To be fair if they're producing pump/refinery quality fuel and can do it cheap enough they might be onto a winner. Currently we don't just pump petrol straight out of the ground. We have to find the crude oil. We have to drill test holes to test the oil well. We have to stick a huge rig on the decent holes and employ a bunch of people to operate them. The extracted oil is pumped onto ships and distributed The oil is processed in a refinery into petrol petrol is distributed. If this new company can skip straight to the last step in one go then it might be financially viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Tell you what Pete, first of all you can stop with the smart-alec comments. We've been through this with perpetual motion before. Try doing a little reading - like this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atkins-Physical-Chemistry-Peter/dp/0199543372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350645864&sr=8-1 and you will know exactly why it's a bad idea. I don't pretend that it's easy to understand all the details of the maths but most things worthwhile do take some work to figure out. As to why do it - because it's easy to bamboozle people who don;t know any better and persuade them to fund something. It's called snake oil and it seems to wrok in your case. Ok, tell ya what. here's a link to the company. I suggest you send them a nice polite email and tell them they're wasting their time, cos you know better! http://www.airfuelsynthesis.com/ Oh and thanks for the link to the £37.59 book. I'll order it right away!...NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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