mikem8634 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The point I was trying to make was that according to the wiki-based quote above it may be unusual but it is possible to be a Buddhist (to cite one of the examples) and an atheist. I've got to admit that it seems to be quite a dichotomous concept but try Googling Atheism in religion and you'll see a fair bit about it. How would the scouts handle that? Here's another example from the BBC "Atheist Buddhism Buddhism is a religion without God No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path, But Buddhas clearly show the way. The Dhammapada, 165. The Buddha did not claim to be in any way divine, nor does Buddhism involve the idea of a personal god. The Buddha suggested that it was fear that produced the religious impulse in humanity. Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines, but these are not a secure kind of refuge. The Dhammapada, 188 The way to cure this fear is not by believing in a God who will protect you, but by coming to a proper understanding and acceptance of the way things are." http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/types/buddhistatheism.shtml I sense this kind of complexity could make a scout leader's head explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenewilde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Its all about making a compromise, and I bet this kid and his dad, and many posters on here, are just arguing for the sake of it, to give religion a kicking. And don't they just love it? I wonder how many threads on here are about giving religion a kicking? They can't just leave people to live their lives in peace, go to church if they want, believe in what they want. No. They absolutely must not be allowed to do that because the atheists are right and everyone else is wrong. Now I really don't care whether people believe in God or not. I'm not one of those Christians who wants to go out there and tell everyone how marvellous God is and I'm right and they're wrong, despite having been urged to do so by several clergy over the years. I wish the atheists would afford me the same right. I wish they'd give their children a chance to make their minds up for themselves, instead of forcing their own views onto them. I wish they'd realise that if there's a religious programme on TV they don't like (and let's face it, there's precious little of them), they can actually change the channel as any intelligent person would instead of screaming for it to be taken off because *they* don't like it. I wish they wouldn't keep up the feeble 'sky pixie' rubbish because frankly, it wasn't funny the first time round. But there you go...... a wish list that will never be granted because some atheists appear to be unable to accept that other people think differently to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenewilde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Janie, I think you know as well as I do that most Christians would be just as disgusted as I am that the scouts would discriminate against a child. I think they would equally be as disgusted at those who try to justify or encourage that discrimination. I'm not disgusted, joining the Scouts involves a promise to God. If he doesn't believe in God, then what's the point? It's not discrimination at all. There are plenty of other youth organisations available, some of which were formed primarily for the purpose of catering for children who don't want to make that promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenewilde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Being taught about religions is a very important part of one's education. Whether you believe or not is another matter, but when dealing with a world where a majority do subscribe to one faith or another, you would be poorly served by ignorance. Ignorance is a speciality of people like closetguy. You know, like a kid, shutting their eyes and putting their hands over their ears. If I can't see it or hear it, then it doesn't exist. He also seems to think that because he doesn't believe in a religion then it doesn't exist. It really is a spectacularly arrogant stance and one imitated by several other people on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 No. They did not. You appear to have a problem with English comprehension. Go on then, let's see if your interpretation of this is as odd as the last one (where you said that the question of God's existence was introduced by the Scouts)... 'Variations of the Scout Promise are available for different faiths (such as the use of 'Allah' to replace 'God' for Muslim Scouts), however all the variations of the promise recognise the 'Duty to God' element. 'Young people will not be refused membership solely because of their parents’ beliefs or non-beliefs, however they are required to make the promise as outlined above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenewilde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 One day i took him and his moslym friend to school who saw what coloured band i had put him on and he allerted me to the fact that the teacher would only take it off as he wasnt allowed halal because he wasnt of the moslym faith.This his teacher comfirmed so i set off straight to the office to find out why my son was being discriminated against.They said i had to fill a consent form in and phone the sheffield council to have it okayed.This they did but was this necessary i ask ! I would be very surprised if the band was taken off specifically because he wasn't a muslim. I would imagine it was more because the teacher had no confirmation from you that he was allowed halal meat. Surely you can realise that some parents would be very angry if they found their child had been given halal meat without their permission? If they have a consent form then everyone is clear about what is allowed and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 only god can judge me Hah! How many accounts is it now, drone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenewilde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I think while the scouts continue to receive funding from the government, funding that is paid for by the tax payer, they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against children. What funding from the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 From my experience, the stronger the Christian values somebody professes, the more they can't stand Catholics. Unless they're a Catholic of course. Another atheist tactic used to spread untruths,because in my experience Catholics C/E and members of other demoninations are much more united then they used to be,acceptance of differences are put aside and more Christian unity events are organised now. I attended one myself a while ago and am planning to do so again soon when it is arranged by a friend of mine who is a practicing Catholic,and i can't wait to go because i'm going to have a lot to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The point I was trying to make was that according to the wiki-based quote above it may be unusual but it is possible to be a Buddhist (to cite one of the examples) and an atheist. I've got to admit that it seems to be quite a dichotomous concept but try Googling Atheism in religion and you'll see a fair bit about it. How would the scouts handle that? Not in the strictest sense. I would class myself as an 'atheist' but it's not as cut and dry as you're making out. Buddhism is generally thought of as an Atheistic religion because it is generally accepted that there is no absolute teaching of a 'creator' God. There are however, most definately 'Gods', but they are seen as impermanent beings subject to the same 'forces' as humans and animals. Even the idea of no creator God is not cut and dry, some of the Mahayana traditions (which include Tibetan and Zen Buddhism) accept the idea of the Trikaya doctrine, without getting into it too heavily each of us has a triple aspect, the most 'coarse' being the human form and the most subtle the 'Buddha' form, which is often related to God - in Vajrayana (a sub school of the Mahayana) there is the idea of the primordial (or Adi) Buddha - which for all intents and purposes can be seen as a concious 'God'. I don't accept any of the above Mahayana concepts but they are certainly present throughout Mahayana Buddhism. As for Hinduism I've never come across a Hindu anywhere - of any school - that doesn't most definately believe in God - a Hindu without belief in God, although not impossible, is a very, very niche variety indeed. Here's another example from the BBC Atheist Buddhism Buddhism is a religion without God No one saves us but ourselves, No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path, But Buddhas clearly show the way. The Dhammapada, 165.[/Quote] Does not negate God - it only negate the kind of 'God' present in the Jesus of Christianity - there is even a passage (I think it's in the anguttara nikaya) where the Buddha states that it's not the belief in God that is at fault but the belief in a God that saves you when there is no personal effort taking place. In short - Hinduism, Islam and Sikhism (not sure about Judaism) at least are religions that don't automatically 'save' you just because of your belief - there has to be personal effort - The Buddha is saying the same thing (and does so on every one of the few occasions he mentions God) - mere 'faith', without appropriate action is pointless, and is not appropriate for the wise. The Buddha did not claim to be in any way divine, nor does Buddhism involve the idea of a personal god[/Quote] The Buddha never denied God, nor did he confirm God - he mentioned a creator God a few times but never in such a way as to confirm or deny his belief in one, he put the 'question' of God down altogether, deeming it a detriment (literally a distraction) to the task at hand. The Buddha suggested that it was fear that produced the religious impulse in humanity[/Quote] Did he? I think you may have misunderstood the line quoted here from the dhammapada Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines, but these are not a secure kind of refuge. The Dhammapada, 188[/Quote] He is repeating here what I outlined above, that putting your 'faith' in these things without personal effort is futile - it is for this reason that these are not a secure refuge - most of his teachings are around correct personal effort - the whole driving force of kamma is will/action, he is aware that all action is fabrication, even good action (or skilfull action), but even on the religious path some action has to be present - that's why he emphasises cultivating skilfull action while 'dropping' unskilfull action. He doesn't say fear produces the religious impulse, he says fear produces 'empty' or unskilfull or bad (or whatever other word you may wish to use) religious impulse - ie; impulse with no hope of changing your situation, for want of a better analogy he is saying if a man comes running at you with a knife sitting in a corner praying wont help you - the skilfull course of action is to 'act' - again, the only present day religion I'm aware of that doesn't contain this idea are those branches of Christianity that merely say 'Give yourself to Christ and you will be saved' - it is this kind of 'empty' 'religious impulse' that he was warning against. The way to cure this fear is not by believing in a God who will protect you, but by coming to a proper understanding and acceptance of the way things are[/Quote] That's what I just said I sense this kind of complexity could make a scout leader's head explode[/Quote] So could my children (if they chose to be Buddhist) become scouts or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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