cgksheff Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 .......... So could my children (if they chose to be Buddhist) become scouts or not? Of course they can. Many Buddhists are. There are asked to promise to do their duty to their dharma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ......... EDIT: Ah, I see where you're both nitpicking, I said "promise to a god" when I should have wrote "promise about a god". I will go back and correct my awful mistake. There is no nitpicking. The English language is one which allows you to be very clear about what you want to say. Especially on a forum such as this when you only have the written word to communicate with. The nature of your argument is one where you should be precise. It is all about understanding what the organisation expects of its members. Your mistake was fundamental. It indicated a total misunderstanding of what you were reading. Thank you for your clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Of course they can. Many Buddhists are. There are asked to promise to do their duty to their dharma. That doesn't really make sense. Also what happens if the scout duty is unskilful in the eyes of the dhamma? (I don't know if it is or not but it could be - actually without knowing the duties of the scouts I would hazard a guess that some of them almost inevitably will be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 That doesn't really make sense. Also what happens if the scout duty is unskilful in the eyes of the dhamma? (I don't know if it is or not but it could be - actually without knowing the duties of the scouts I would hazard a guess that some of them almost inevitably will be). What do you mean "in the eyes of the dharma"? We are talking about young people enjoying the benefits of the Scouts whilst, hopefully, developing into responsible members of society. I really don't think it is going to muck up their chances of attaining Nirvana. If they want to join the Scouts, they would be welcomed along with many other Buddhist members already there. If you want to find theological reasons to keep them out, I'm sure you will find as many as you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 There is no nitpicking. When the substitution of one single word for another makes absolutely no difference to the point of the argument (that the child is expected to make a promise that they cannot keep and have no intention of keeping), you are indeed nitpicking. The English language is one which allows you to be very clear about what you want to say. Especially on a forum such as this when you only have the written word to communicate with. The nature of your argument is one where you should be precise. It is all about understanding what the organisation expects of its members. Your mistake was fundamental. It indicated a total misunderstanding of what you were reading. Thank you for your clarification. Then maybe you should take some of your own advice and be clear about how you interpretted this... 'Furthermore, Scouting accepts that as they grow into independent adults, some young people may question or doubt the existence of God as they develop their personal spiritual understanding. ...as this... No. They simply imply that they (the speaker) themselves believe in the existence of a God and it is natural for other people to doubt it. Many people simply ignore it. The Scouts think that it is good for people to develop spiritually and so introduce the question of God to young people as part of their overall spiritual development. The spokesperson is specifically talking about the "young people" and makes no reference to their own belief in God. To say that someone may doubt the existence of God as they grow into adults, suggests that they didn't doubt when they were younger. EDIT: Oh and please do explain how you think the Scouts introduce the question of whether or not God exists, as you claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 That doesn't really make sense. Also what happens if the scout duty is unskilful in the eyes of the dhamma? (I don't know if it is or not but it could be - actually without knowing the duties of the scouts I would hazard a guess that some of them almost inevitably will be). They are expected to take part in prayer and worship and also to discover the need for prayer and worship, in their words. Does that go against the dhamma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 What do you mean "in the eyes of the dharma"? We are talking about young people enjoying the benefits of the Scouts whilst, hopefully, developing into responsible members of society. I really don't think it is going to muck up their chances of attaining Nirvana. If they want to join the Scouts, they would be welcomed along with many other Buddhist members already there. If you want to find theological reasons to keep them out, I'm sure you will find as many as you wish. I'm not trying to find any reason to keep them out, I'm asking you a question based on your statement that Buddhists are asked to promise to do their duty to their dharma[/Quote]. I'm asking you the following; 1. What you mean by they are asked to do their duty in line with the dhamma - because to me that doesn't really make sense, and 2. What happens if that duty is unskilful in the eyes of the dhamma - what if it is seen as detrimental to the Buddhist path. Easy enough questions based on the information you provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm not trying to find any reason to keep them out, I'm asking you a question based on your statement that Buddhists are . I'm asking you the following; 1. What you mean by they are asked to do their duty in line with the dhamma - because to me that doesn't really make sense, and 2. What happens if that duty is unskilful in the eyes of the dhamma - what if it is seen as detrimental to the Buddhist path. Easy enough questions based on the information you provided. Then easy enough for you to find the answers. The question was asked if Buddhists can join the Scout Association. The answer is "Yes". The Scout Promise is adjusted to suit their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 They are expected to take part in prayer and worship and also to discover the need for prayer and worship, in their words. Does that go against the dhamma? As I put to another poster earlier, worshipping a God in that manner would be somewhat akin to letting a knife weilding maniac stab you instead of trying to do something about it - from the point of view of the dhamma. It isn't 'bad' in the moral sense - but it is taking you away from performing acts that would be much more fruitful. I suppose it depends on the ratio of worship (or other things detrimental to the 'path') compared to things that would be deemed skilful - as I don't really know what kind of things the scouts do I couldn't really make a judgement - which is why I asked for clarification in cgksheff's statement. Alas I've got to go out for a wee while today but I will be interested in seeing what he puts in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Then easy enough for you to find the answers. The question was asked if Buddhists can join the Scout Association. The answer is "Yes". The Scout Promise is adjusted to suit their faith. For someone who crows to others about making themselves clear and precise, you don't half like to dance around the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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