mikem8634 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yes it does make sense. Thanks Janie I would hate to come across as criticising anyone's faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 And don't they just love it? I wonder how many threads on here are about giving religion a kicking? They can't just leave people to live their lives in peace, go to church if they want, believe in what they want. No. They absolutely must not be allowed to do that because the atheists are right and everyone else is wrong. OK. I'm an atheist. I have no problem with you attending church and living your life in peace. I also have no problem with people holding personal beliefs in gods, demons, fairies, angels, invisible pink unicorns, hob goblins...ad nauseum. I don't have a problem with people believing that the performance of silly rituals, whether that involves sprinkling water on their heads or dancing around an altar, while saying special words or praying, protects them from harm or makes them special in some way. Just as equally, I wouldn't give a damn if people went home and wore y-fronts on their heads while praising the great Y. No matter how silly or ridiculous, if that's what they enjoy doing, I'm fine with all that. I think you'll find the majority of atheists would have the same view as me when it comes to the above. So your statement “No. They absolutely must not be allowed to do that because the atheists are right and everyone else is wrong.” isn't really based on what atheists say or think. Now I really don't care whether people believe in God or not. Yes, as I previously stated, neither do I. There is, however, a but... I'm not one of those Christians who wants to go out there and tell everyone how marvellous God is and I'm right and they're wrong, despite having been urged to do so by several clergy over the years. I wish the atheists would afford me the same right. As you've noted yourself, there are Christians – and those who follow other religions – who do go out of their way to push their beliefs on others while maintaining the attitude that they are right and everyone else is wrong; those attitudes, along with the duty to push their beliefs, come from their religious texts. Unfortunately, with those attitudes comes the view that non-believers(atheists and theists of other religions) can't be good, that they are immoral, evil, misguided, etc. Other views that homosexuals are evil or immoral also come into the fold, along with views that they should be punished or denied the same rights and privileges everyone else enjoys. And it doesn't just stop there. Some attitudes encouraged by religion would also see contraception banned, that children be segregated, or that women be denied the same rights and privileges men enjoy. Then there is medical research that has saved the lives of thousands: blood transfusions, organ transplants, you name it! All opposed at some stage or another by religious organisations - the latest being towards stem cell research. I won't forget to mention other attacks on science and education: ones that made the likes of Richard Dawkins stand up and say enough is enough. Now, as far as I can tell, atheists aren't at fault here. If anything it is the attitudes and beliefs of the religious(mainly the abrahamic varients) who oppose anything that differs from what they believe their deity wants of them. Sadly, they often try to impose those beliefs, through law, on all of society – whether they are atheists or not. Do you seriously expect atheists, gays, women, scientists, teachers, etc, to keep shut and put up with the constant nonsense pushed by those theists who – unlike you – can't keep their faith to themselves and practice it in their own way? Sorry, but if a theist – or anyone - is going to try and sell their ideas, no matter how crazy, ridiculous or insulting, they should expect disagreement, ridicule and opposition in return. I wish they'd give their children a chance to make their minds up for themselves, instead of forcing their own views onto them. That's rich. We aren't the ones making children feel like they must make an oath to a god that doesn't exist to them – just so they can join in with their friends scouting activities. We aren't the ones visiting schools encouraging children to pray and sing hymns in praise of gods and shoving divisive religious yarns don't their throats. And neither are we making schools dedicated to pushing extreme religious views. I wish they'd realise that if there's a religious programme on TV they don't like (and let's face it, there's precious little of them), they can actually change the channel as any intelligent person would instead of screaming for it to be taken off because *they* don't like it. I wonder how many theists would protest a dedicated TV slot for atheists to express their views - or are dedicated slots for that sort of thing only afforded to the religious? I wish they wouldn't keep up the feeble 'sky pixie' rubbish because frankly, it wasn't funny the first time round. But there you go...... a wish list that will never be granted because some atheists appear to be unable to accept that other people think differently to them. Again, if you wish to sell me the idea that gods, demons, heaven, demi-gods, talking donkeys, angels, etc, exist, then expect your claims to be open to scrutiny. If you can't substantiate your claims, then I'm going to say what I think about those claims and your beliefs. I'm not going to keep quiet or be intimidated into being silent. If you find that offensive or insulting, that's not my problem. If you find it offensive that I lump your unsubstantiated claims with the other fashionable twaddle(including SKY PIXIES), again, that's not my problem. It seems to me that a great many theists want the right to enjoy their lives and express their views, but don't want others to have to same rights and privileges they enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ............ I'm not trying to trip you up merely asking questions based on an assertion you made No assertion. Simply helping with information. You asked a question and I gave you the answer. You child may join the Scouts. No need for you to be rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denlin Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Anyone can join scouts. it's the leaders who are requested to pledge allegiance to God and the monarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Anyone can join scouts. it's the leaders who are requested to pledge allegiance to God and the monarch. If thats the case,i don't know what all the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Anyone can join scouts. it's the leaders who are requested to pledge allegiance to God and the monarch. All Scouts have to promise to do their duty to a god, according to the spokesperson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The attestation oaths taken by soldiers and the police have alternative wording if one doesn't wish to swear allegiance by God to the Crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The attestation oaths taken by soldiers and the police have alternative wording if one doesn't wish to swear allegiance by God to the Crown. The Scouts would do well to take note of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 No assertion. Simply helping with information. You asked a question and I gave you the answer. You child may join the Scouts. No need for you to be rude. The answer you gave was insufficient so I asked further questions for clarification, I have also put to you just to tell me if you don't know. All you've actually done is danced around the subject, I appreciate the answer you gave but it is neither use nor ornament without the clarification I asked for. I fail to see why you deem it so difficult as to give either a straight answer or simply tell me you don't know. As I said before I'm not trying to trick you I just want you to answer me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ...as long as they are not receiving any funding from the taxpayer. You take after your dad, "a chip off the old block" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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