Coppen Estates. . . .Sheffield

[Harry2111]

So...new query here hoping someone can help.

 

My daughter bought a house the ground rent is  just 77p  per 6 months but they charged her £45 at completion for approving her insurance documents. They have never asked to view these at all but took the £45. I was worried at the time they might not approve of her insurance she took out and would insist that she took theirs as others have stated , so much going on at completion but I wondered is the onus on her to send them her insurance only for them to say no you need ours?

 

Today she received an invoice, it shows she has paid her 'annual insurance approval fee' for September 2021- September 2022 however they are now demanding  77p from the previous homeowner (not worth bothering about) but then another £45 for the period September 2022 - September 2023, plus annual ground rent to be paid up to September 2023 giving a figure of  £47.31

 

Is is common practice to be charged upfront? I am also really put out they can get away with ripping people off like this however I don't want to 'rock the boat' so to speak.

 

There were concerns at the conveyancing stage, see the Q&A below: The solicitors answers are in red.

 

I have some concerns regarding the leaseholder i.e .Coppen Estates I would like some clarification on the following points:

•       Are they aware and in full approval of the building work that the current vendor has made in the last 2 years i.e. the conversion of the outside toilet into a utility/toilet? If so, I would like to see evidence of their approval. I cannot see any covenant within the lease requiring the landlord’s approval to any such works.

•       Re the £45 charge of insurance approval, can I see proof that this is a legal requirement? Where does it state this? There is a covenant within the lease which states that the landlord must approve the buildings insurance. The landlord have then confirmed within their attached letter that they charge a fee for approving the insurance.

•       I have a copy of the lease however it is a really bad photocopy and some of the wording is missing from the end of the page, please can you ensure I receive a full copy as neither you nor I can read the full facts on this? This is the only copy of the lease we have been provided with, this is the copy available from the Land Registry. All the required information is legible, so we don’t see this to be an issue.

•       I can see the ground rent charge is 15/5d which equates to 77p in today's currency however there is no mention of the amount where this £45 comes from? The £45 is the landlord’s bi-annual fee for approving the insurance, so this is separate to the ground rent. Their fees are confirmed within the attached letter.

•       Are they at liberty to increase this extraordinary amount and within what parameters? I am not aware of any legislation governing this. The landlord could potentially increase this sum in the future, but I could not comment on any future fees the landlord may charge I’m afraid.

•       Do I have to run by the insurers I use each year before I take out the policy otherwise I may waste money buying a policy they do not approve of? I think you said that this was highly unusual. Yes, the landlord is enforcing this covenant which is a term of the lease to the property. It is quite unusual that landlords still enforce such a covenant, but not unknown. You would have to obtain their approval of the insurance each year if you purchased the property.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Harry2111
Adding info

[Jeffrey Shaw]

If the lease restricts freedom to insure, the only ways forward are:

a. to pay the £45 annually; or

b. to serve a s.164 Notice annually; or

c. to buy the freehold reversion (but the Notice of Claim cannot be served until she's owned for at least two years).

 

For b or c, obtain proper paid-for legal advice. Do not rely on website posts, not even mine!

[topflat29]

The advice by LEASE  for serving a notice by the leaseholder:

 

https://www.lease-advice.org/faq/i-am-a-leaseholder-of-a-house-and-my-lease-requires-me-to-arrange-insurance-with-an-insurer-nominated-or-approved-by-my-landlord-is-there-any-way-of-choosing-my-own-insurer/

[Mongoose]

PAS/Coppen have been buying up leases recently so a whole new swathe of people are being introduced to them.

 

Very useful thread indeed.

 

In terms of their annual insurance fee con; is there actually a "requirement" to send your insurance details? Or will simply coughing up to their demands satisfy their snouts? Looking to sell in the not too distant future so at this point I think I'd rather bend over and take it rather than faff about with a s164 notice and risk them playing silly buggers at sale. Awful people.

 

[geared]

They're going to mess around come sale time whatever happens.  Notorious for terrible and slow communication, can put your sale at risk of someone pulling out.

 

Get the freehold reversion purchased, you'll be glad you did.

[topflat29]

The current  free guide  to compulsory purchase of  freehold title for a  leasehold house ( enfranchisement ) can be downloaded from :

 

https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/houses-qualification-valuation/

 

Section 3.1 states :

 

The house must be a building which is reasonably considered a house, divided vertically from any adjoining house. It does not matter if the building has been divided into flats as long as you have the lease of the whole house.

 

Certain buildings which contain business premises can qualify as a house within this definition. For example, the lease of a building which is a shop with a flat above may qualify for enfranchisement.

 

The future leasehold reforms in 2023  by Parliament, may reduce the cost of enfranchisement ( e.g   abolish marriage value ) 

[Jeffrey Shaw]

On 20/04/2022 at 19:54, Mongoose said:

PAS/Coppen have been buying up leases recently so a whole new swathe of people are being introduced to them.

 

 

Read that as "...buying up freehold reversions..."

They do not usually buy-up leaseholds.

And it's by no means 'recent'. These operations effectively started as long ago as the late 1960s.

On 20/04/2022 at 19:54, Mongoose said:

In terms of their annual insurance fee con; is there actually a "requirement" to send your insurance details? Or will simply coughing up to their demands satisfy their snouts? Looking to sell in the not too distant future so at this point I think I'd rather bend over and take it rather than faff about with a s164 notice and risk them playing silly buggers at sale.

 

It all depends on the insurance covenants in the lease.

[FilJay*]

On 25/02/2021 at 18:38, SteelCitylass said:

I only paid them every 6 months rather than yearly for the inconvenience to them. I also don't trust them having more money upfront than they are entitled to. 

I did manage to get my documents signed after multiple voice messages left and also calling at their office (despite them saying no personal callers) however, they are unfortunately getting their supposed insurance renewal charges and maintenance from the proceeds of sale as otherwise it would have delayed things further. However, i have been doing some digging on them as a management company and it seems they aren't registered with either the property redress scheme or the property ombudsman which is illegal if so. Therefore, i will be reporting them once everything clears. Hopefully, give them a shock and a massive fine! 

Stop them messing us good folks about! 

 

 

I was given this email by my solicitiors for Coppen and PAS. I don't think they make it common knowledge or check or respond but worth a try 

coppenandpas@hotmail.co.uk

I sent my Ground Rent by cheque on 17th May and added £5_00 in order to

get a receipt along with a self addressed envelope with a first class stamp as requested. 

The cheque was drawn from my account on the 20th May but there is still

 

no sign of my receipt so I left a message on the 1ST JUNE on the answering 

machine politely requesting my receipt.  How long should I wait before 

making another call or sending an email? 

[Jeffrey Shaw]

See most of previous posts! Coppen might reply and issue a receipt- but I don't think it especially likely.

Don't waste your time/money on SAE or telephone calls.

Onn the other hand, a cleared cheque is evidence of payment.

[FilJay*]

Thanks,my bank statement is proof that I have paid. Took two and a half years for

them to send the invoice due to Covid and a change of Management Company. 

Fortunately I made a copy of the invoice/ statement. I will take your advice and

will decline the invitation to send a stamped self  addressed envelope and fee 

in order to get a receipt in future. ANOTHER PENSIONER MUGGED!!