Coppen Estates. . . .Sheffield

[geared]

Proof of payment is sufficient I believe?  Don't expect any kind of contact from Coppen.

 

Jeffrey will confirm.

[topflat29]

The proof of payment is shown on your bank statement .

[Jeffrey Shaw]

On 22/04/2023 at 20:09, topflat29 said:

The proof of payment is shown on your bank statement .

True, BUT this is not all that a tenant (leaseholder) needs.

See s.45(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925. It reads, with my added underlinings:

Where land sold is held by lease (other than an under-lease), the purchaser shall assume, unless the contrary appears, that the lease was duly granted; and, on production of the receipt for the last payment due for rent under the lease before the date of actual completion of the purchase, he shall assume, unless the contrary appears, that all the covenants and provisions of the lease have been duly performed and observed up to the date of actual completion of the purchase.

 

The point is that a clear (= unqualified) ground rent receipt brings with an automatic implication that there's no subsisting breach of covenant. The purchase of a leasehold needs this reassurance.

[Twitcher]

On 21/04/2023 at 12:57, Ghost922 said:

Hello, has anyone paid their annual fees recently? I've paid but unable to email for confirmation as their mailbox is full. Typical 🙄

Isn't that just professional....

On 24/04/2023 at 17:36, Jeffrey Shaw said:

True, BUT this is not all that a tenant (leaseholder) needs.

See s.45(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925. It reads, with my added underlinings:

Where land sold is held by lease (other than an under-lease), the purchaser shall assume, unless the contrary appears, that the lease was duly granted; and, on production of the receipt for the last payment due for rent under the lease before the date of actual completion of the purchase, he shall assume, unless the contrary appears, that all the covenants and provisions of the lease have been duly performed and observed up to the date of actual completion of the purchase.

 

The point is that a clear (= unqualified) ground rent receipt brings with an automatic implication that there's no subsisting breach of covenant. The purchase of a leasehold needs this reassurance.

So Jeffrey, are you saying that a cheque stub or that fact you can see it on your bank statement is not proof enough, do you need to get a receipt each time ? A statement of account is produced each year this should prove that subsequent years have been paid?

Another quandary now with Coppen ......

 

Thinking of building a small garden office, not sure without checking what the leasehold actually states but I feel sure that

1. They could object or...

2. They would drag their feet and charge just for their time on this one

 

No win situation with these people.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

8 hours ago, Twitcher said:

Isn't that just professional....

So Jeffrey, are you saying that a cheque stub or that fact you can see it on your bank statement is not proof enough, do you need to get a receipt each time ? A statement of account is produced each year this should prove that subsequent years have been paid?

Another quandary now with Coppen ......

 

Thinking of building a small garden office, not sure without checking what the leasehold actually states but I feel sure that

1. They could object or...

2. They would drag their feet and charge just for their time on this one

 

No win situation with these people.

A. A cheque stub is evidence of writing-out a cheque, not that you sent it nor that it was received- and still less that it cleared into the payee's bank. The benefit of s.45(2) is for a purchaser only, anyway, not a continuing tenant (leaseholder).

B. If the yearly statement origin ates with your bank, it should evidence that the cheque has been cleared.

C. Better still, if the yearly statement origin ates with Coppen, the fact that it shows all payments made up to date and no ground rent remaining unpaid could be a s.45(2) receipt.

 

As to the garden office, read your lease! Do not ask for consent unless it says that you need it.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Jeffrey Shaw

[Twitcher]

15 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

A. A cheque stub is evidence of writing-out a cheque, not that you sent it nor that it was received- and still less that it cleared into the payee's bank. The benefit of s.45(2) is for a purchaser only, anyway, not a continuing tenant (leaseholder).

B. If the yearly statement origin ates with your bank, it should evidence that the cheque has been cleared.

C. Better still, if the yearly statement origin ates with Coppen, the fact that it shows all payments made up to date and no ground rent remaining unpaid could be a s.45(2) receipt.

 

As to the garden office, read your lease! Do not ask for consent unless it says that you need it.

Thank you very much Jeffrey.

 

Exactly Jeffrey, I shall not be contacting them unless we absolutely have to. Two years will be expiring in September, at this point we shall be trying to purchase the freehold reversion, is this something that you could help us with if I email you nearer the time please?

 

Meantime I am going to get a copy of the lease from Land Registry,  the one originally supplied by the solicitors was an awful copy, I pointed out to them at the time we couldn't read the end of the sentences as it was copied so badly, they never responded. 

[JaQee]

Hello Twitcher,

I wondered if you applied to buy your freehold, if you had any response from Coppen and if so how it's going?

We are in the process of buying a property and Coppen own the freehold.

We hope to buy the freehold and understand the process will be made quicker and easier with the reformed Leasehold and Freehold bill that on the way.

 

Thanks.

[geared]

You won't get a response from them unless you serve the correct paperwork.

 

General questions, queries or approaches are always ignored so don't even bother.  They only ever respond to legal paperwork.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

23 hours ago, JaQee said:

I wondered if you applied to buy your freehold, if you had any response from Coppen and if so how it's going?

We are in the process of buying a property and Coppen own the freehold.

We hope to buy the freehold and understand the process will be made quicker and easier with the reformed Leasehold and Freehold bill that on the way.

 

Geared is quite right.

Oh, and don't wait around for any new legislation. The Bill may take months to pass through Parliament (if it does), nobody can know its final shape, even a new Act may take a very long time before commencement (the date when it comes into force) because Statutory Instruments and prescribed forms need to be drafted/promulgated, and meanwhile a lease with < 80yrs unexpired will continue to lose value hand over fist.

[JaQee]

On 10/01/2024 at 17:34, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Geared is quite right.

Oh, and don't wait around for any new legislation. The Bill may take months to pass through Parliament (if it does), nobody can know its final shape, even a new Act may take a very long time before commencement (the date when it comes into force) because Statutory Instruments and prescribed forms need to be drafted/promulgated, and meanwhile a lease with < 80yrs unexpired will continue to lose value hand over fist.

Oh I see.

We had hoped the threat of the changes might make the freeholder keener to sell quickly.

There is still over 200 years left on the lease of the house we are buying.

We read an article that suggested the vendors can submit the formal application themselves (as they have owned over 2 years) and on completion, they can assign the benefit of that application to us. The article stated there wouldn't be any cost involved involved in just making the formal application?

It's hard to know if it would be better (easier) to get the process started as early as possible or just wait the 2 years.