alchresearch Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It makes you wonder if its the car equivalent of printers and ink - the actual device is cheap but everything else after is expensive. A car with faulty stop-start technology that's out of warranty = £££££££££££££ for the dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't know what difference it makes but my car starts the instant the clutch is depressed..there's no churning...it comes on like a light bulb..it doesn't stop the engine when it's cold..so the oil will always be warm... Like mine does, (well used to - I cracked the engine management and removed the coding for it so it's permanantly disabled now). You still have to pressurise the oil gallery however and deliver oil which many not take long, but it does mean a few revs unpressurised, and even if it were pressuriesed (some vehicles have a constantly running electric oil pump) you are starting from a stationary shaft which means that the journal is resting on the bearing and will rub as it start to spin up to lift off speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frededwards Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Pete: You can get lead/acid gel batteries, but they still have a finite life. To claim otherwise is simply untrue. All batteries have a limited number of charge/discharge cycles they will tolerate, regardless of type. True, some last longer than others, but they all fail eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 And I wouldn't ever "trust" stop/start completely (i.e. don't trust the car to start again, probably at the most cumbersome possible place - so says Murphy's Law). Tried a Subaru XV the other day, which had it fitted - it was making me feel rather uncomfortable waiting at roundabouts, and eventually really 'doing my head in' after 20 mins! So that's another tech which is out (as much as legacy tech allows in years to come) so far as I'm concerned. Mine looks for you lifting the clutch at a junction. So I came up to a junction, slowed down and stopped, set the parking brake and lifted the clutch. As I did so, I saw that the driver was waving me out, so off with the brake, into gear, clutch up and the car lurched forward and stopped half out the junction. The smart system hadn't had time to "see" me re engage the clutch and didnt' realise I wanted to go forward. It tried to start, but by then I was in gear and the anti stall system gave some strange results to the EMU - and the dial lit up like a christmas tree. I had to actually remove the ignition fob and restart the entire car before it would do anything. Not ideal. Hence I deisabled it permanantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I've had the car for about a year now and done 34,000 miles..so far the stop start hasn't hiccup'd once..time will tell I suppose.. Looking inside an engine compartment these days frightens me to death. I can'hardly recognise anything that I used to recognise. Give me my old Triumph Herald (I once owned). I knew what everything was, and it was all easily accessible!....Sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 No the old advice was right. Car engines, or rather bearings have gotten better since then, so that in normal use the increase in bearing wear is still acceptable. However if you are planning on keeping the car a long time this bearing wear is not acceptable, so I don't let mine stop/start. You have a car with s/s and have disabled it? When starting a cold engine, the journals are probably the wrong fit in the bearing, due to differential expansion, and the oil is thick and doesnt lubricate well as it has a low flow rate. Once heated it is better, and gets to the bearings faster on a hot start, but there is always wear on an a hydrodynamic bearing when the shaft starts from a stationary condition. Some figures, which are about 20 years old now showed the problem - something like 90% of all engine wear occured in the first couple of minutes of a running session (the sessions simulated a 30 minutes drive) and of that 90% of wear, 65% of it occured in the first ten seconds before the oil arrived. That's well over half of all total wear occuring in the ten seconds from turning the key. Reading about s/s in most cases the engine is not stopped enough for the oil to drain, nor has it cooled at all (so viscosity is still at the correct level). I think worrying about the extra wear is like worrying whether your iPhone will still be cool in a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It makes you wonder if its the car equivalent of printers and ink.Nah, it's the equivalent of a camel these days. You know, a donkey designed by committee (boardroom, car designers, software programmers, car marketeers, supply chain managers, Gvt/supranational health/safety/crash/emissions/etc. regulations, etc, etc.) Mine looks for you lifting the clutch at a junction. <...>Call me a control freak if you will, but any feature, in any car, which interferes (by design) with the actual driving (engine, revs, clutch, brakes, etc, etc. - basically all that is involved with moving the lump from A to B, whether an inch or a 1000 miles) is an instant strike-out in my book. Where cars are concerned, I'm an absolute luddite these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Looking inside an engine compartment these days frightens me to death. I can'hardly recognise anything that I recognise. Give me my old Triumph Herald (I once owned). I knew what everything was, and it was all easily accessible!....Sigh! You want to look inside mine. All you see is a big box plasticky thing - the entire engine is covered with plastic covers - you can't really see anything engine-y at all apart from the exhaust manifold and some cables. It took me an hour to find the battery when I first got it. I was looking at the wrong end of the car..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frededwards Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 You have a car with s/s and have disabled it? Reading about s/s in most cases the engine is not stopped enough for the oil to drain, nor has it cooled at all (so viscosity is still at the correct level). I think worrying about the extra wear is like worrying whether your iPhone will still be cool in a decade. The issue is not with the oil draining back into the sump. because the oil pump is stpped, the oil pressure is zero, therefore the film strength of said oil collapses, thus causing premature wear to the bearing faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 You want to look inside mine. All you see is a big box plasticky thing - the entire engine is covered with plastic covers - you can't really see anything engine-y at all apart from the exhaust manifold and some cables. It took me an hour to find the battery when I first got it. I was looking at the wrong end of the car..... Yeah I've been there before....My old mini (pre-BMW) :hihi: I'm a heathen eh? I don't understand why you got a car with start stop tech and then disabled it? Was the model you wanted not available without it? Or was it the problem you had at the junction you mention that put you off it? I'm afraid I'm in the same camp as Loob on this issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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