Jeffrey Shaw Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The more I look into parking charges the murkier the water gets. I'm all in favour of paying what is fair but the charges these companies try and get away with is just criminal! I've been invoiced £60 for going over the allowed time by 18 minutes, so if I work that back the value they are placing on that parking space is £200 per hour. And if you take them up on the '2 hour free' allowance then they've given away £400 worth of parking! AND it's not "theirs" to give, either; the land belongs to its registered proprietor and not to the rippers-off of parked motorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The most useful thing I read was that in the highly unlikely event of them taking you to court, they are only entitled to recover their losses...so in our case, we rent our space and have a rolling 6 month contract....the permit we show in our car expired part way through and we didn't realise, but as we were still paying for the space the owner of the car parking space hadn't made a loss. Same with pay & display, if you go over your allocated time they can really only get you to pay for the time that you were not displaying a valid ticket, which in most cases is a couple of quid max. Meant to add: the chances of a judge even agreeing to allow a case for a £1.50 loss is incredibly low! If ,and its a massive IF you are taken to court request that the parking company supply written evidence they have the landowners permission to persue you for losses through the courts. This will see off the parking company as they will not produce any such evidence. There was a case recently where a motorist was taken to court by a parking cowboy ,and the motorist asked them to provide written evidence to which the parking company replied they didnt have to provide evidence of such permission and the judge threw out the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peak4 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 AND it's not "theirs" to give, either; the land belongs to its registered proprietor and not to the rippers-off of parked motorists. If ,and its a massive IF you are taken to court request that the parking company supply written evidence they have the landowners permission to persue you for losses through the courts. This will see off the parking company as they will not produce any such evidence. There was a case recently where a motorist was taken to court by a parking cowboy ,and the motorist asked them to provide written evidence to which the parking company replied they didnt have to provide evidence of such permission and the judge threw out the case. It may be that Parking Eye actually will produce such evidence. I've been casually following a thread over on PepiPoo which the two of you might be interested in reading. Beware, it's up to 10 pages now, and refers to a chap who has recently lost a court case against PE. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75803 I'd be interested to know what you and Moosey make of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Dave Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 These are best killed off at an early stage rather than the "ignore" option. 1.Do not admit to being the driver. 2. Wait for the Notice To Keeper 3. Make a 'soft ' appeal and ask for a POPLA code. Make a hard appeal to POPLA including asking to see the right to pursue the charge via their contract. And a pre-estimate of their losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 It may be that Parking Eye actually will produce such evidence. I've been casually following a thread over on PepiPoo which the two of you might be interested in reading. Beware, it's up to 10 pages now, and refers to a chap who has recently lost a court case against PE. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75803 I'd be interested to know what you and Moosey make of it. To be honest, I remain of the same view I've always had. I think in law, the principles that these tickets are based on are flawed, on a number of grounds. I think the majority of Judges would find against the parking companies, and in my view, that would be the right decision. I can however see certain Judges, even in Sheffield, finding for the parking companies. One Judge in Sheffield springs to mind, two in Leeds certainly spring to mind, and a few others that I'm aware of. My point is that my view is that there's no clear law that's 100% certain here. Others will disagree, however I really don't believe there's any Judgment from a higher Court that binds County Courts, let alone Small Claims Courts, so there's nothing stopping Judges finding however they please. Bear in mind these will be heard in Small Claims Courts too, and DDJ's hear the cases, not senior circuit Judges. Judges are odd creatures. I have had decisions go against me on points I was certain I would win. Similarly, I've taken a chance on points I thought would lose, and a Judge has gone with me. Perhaps I was the more persuasive on that particular day; perhaps the Judge just liked my cufflinks. Who knows. I think unless there's clear statutory guidance, or a clear Court of Appeal Judgment (which won't happen), there's going to be cases that go for and against the motorist. I think the majority will go for the motorist, but there will be some where the parking company win. Bear in mind one important fact. This is a decision on the law by one Judge on one day. As I point out to my clients, Judges are former or current lawyers. Lawyers disagree. If we didn't, the Courts would be out of business. Motorists a, b and c may get the Judge who interprets the law in favour of the motorist. Motorist d may get the Judge who reads the law differently. Every law can be interpreted differently, so unless there is a blatant Court of Appeal Judgment or new statute passed that can't be disputed, the fact that lawyers disagree means Judges will decide in different ways too. Dull, but you asked for my view! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Dave Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Excellent post, as you might expect. Some private parking companies have twigged onto the fact that court papers are a great frighteners, notably Parking Eye. Hence my advice to cut them off early rather than the previous advice of "ignore". I am interested to know why Moosey thinks Observices v Thurlow is not definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Excellent post, as you might expect. Some private parking companies have twigged onto the fact that court papers are a great frighteners, notably Parking Eye. Hence my advice to cut them off early rather than the previous advice of "ignore". I am interested to know why Moosey thinks Observices v Thurlow is not definitive. I'd not read it fully I'll admit but isn't it county court? Certainly useful if so but although they'd like to, recorders and circuit judges don't create precedent. The Judges aren't bound by previous county court decisions. Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peak4 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Moosey, thanks for a well thought out and measured reply, and no not at all "Dull" The thread I referred to also seems to show the possible issues with discussing individual cases on an open forum. Should I ever be in need of a solicitor, I'll be in touch if I can find out where you work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Dave Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Circuit judge I believe, presumably one up from Small Claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Circuit judge I believe, presumably one up from Small Claims. I think so. Would be normal for an appeal from SCC. I'd watch with interest if one of these went up to the Court of Appeal on a point of law. Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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