Allotments have become a necessity.

[Cyclone]

Like you Pete, dragging yourself to the Jobcentre every two weeks?

 

Pete?

 

I think you might have got your wires crossed.

[Mr Prime]

Pete?

 

I think you might have got your wires crossed.

 

Having asked around who the bloke is who calls himself Cyclone who has all day to sit on here, dissecting multiple people's posts, breaking them down into quotes with daft one liners in between I'm told you're actually on the dole and live in Gleadless and are called Pete. Something of a SF 'legend'.

[cardoor]

What about food stamps?

 

 

 

 

I see nothing in that link that mentions growing food due to "necessity".

 

In US most states only give food stamps for a limited time period whilst you're on welfare.

 

Well I reckon even you could work this one out, why do the poorest cities have the most urban farms? What do you think their main objective is?

 

Why do most schools in detroit now have horticulture as part of their eductaion?

[cardoor]

Go live there and show them the way then?

The handfull of CSX drivers i know of think the place is a deadbeat hole to be kept away from not cos its scary so much as its just vile..

 

Actually I'm looking into moving to Windsor, Canada which is just across the lake Michigan and part of Detroits metro area.

[chem1st]

http://www.rivercottage.net/users/sanman/blog/1260050268-my-road-to-river-cottage/

 

Read and be inspired, none of this was achieved by posting moans on any forums.

 

This coincided roughly with our move to Loxley. The house we moved into is a normal 4 bedroom semi with a reasonably sized garden. However I was desperate with the desire for a more self-sufficient lifestyle and craved for some land on which I could produce my own food. Having kept horses since I was 12 years old I also had the added incentive to try and find land in Loxley so that they were closer to home.

 

I spent considerable time trying to find land near my home on which I could keep my horses and also produce my own food. My requests to local landowners to lease land proved to be unsuccessful. Four or five years passed and my desire for the 'Good Life' remained unabated. Then one rainy day during a break at our caravan on the east coast something happened that would ultimately lead to the project that is "Loxley Valley Community Farm". Helen, my wife, had popped out to the local shops and whilst there had looked in a second hand book shop. She returned with a copy of the book "Bees at the Bottom of the Garden" by Alan Campion. I had always had an interest in bee keeping and I immediately sat down and read the book cover to cover. On returning home I immediately set about trying to find a bee keeping course.

 

I was lucky to find a course pretty close to home that also included a hive and bees for the grand sum of £85; I reserved my place immediately. Having three young children neither my wife or myself were keen to have a hive in the garden. I therefore started again to write letters to all the local landowners; however instead of asking whether it was possible to lease some land I asked if it was possible to keep a hive of bees on their land. The forty or so letters that I wrote resulted in a single reply to say that my request was possible. I met the landowner who showed me a couple of sites and I settled on one just a few minutes away from home.

 

My bee keeping proved to uneventful and the landowner requested that I move my bees to another site which was closer to a crop of Oil Seed Rape he was growing. This would aid in the pollination of the crop and a higher yield. As my relationship with the landowner became stronger I made enquiries about the possibility of leasing some land. However like most farmers he was quite cagey about the matter and avoided giving me a definite yes or no. The stalemate was quickly broken when I told him how much I was willing to pay; a grazing license was quickly secured for a six and a half acre field very close to where I live. Once my two elderley ponies were ensconced I started negotiations with the landowner to extend my grazing license to an agricultural license. The latter would mean that I was open to use the land for any 'agricultural' use. After 12 months of having a grazing license the landowner agreed to change this to an agricultural license.

 

 

This guy has done a good thing with the land and used it productively by SHARING IT, but he started with money and land, and spent vast time and moneys searching for more which he had to pay for!

 

Had he had access to land, he could have been doing productive things a lot more quickly. A lot of the success of the project results from his sharing of the land.

 

So tell me, why would it be a bad thing for people to have access to land via more sharing of it! (Especially idle land or land upon large farms - what with small farms being much more LAND productive...)?

[NewBiz]

If allotments are a necessity for survival, how are the 99.8% of the population who don't have one surviving?

[chem1st]

Rubbish, to stop poverty people need to get of their arses and work. There is plenty of work out there for people who want it. Yes it may only pay a little more than being on benefits but its a start and will often lead to higher paid work.

Working for others is not a way to reduce poverty, slavery proved this. The only way to reduce poverty is to increase people's access to land. China's growth can be explained by this, India's somewhat also (but India is not as forward thinking as China and lags behind)

 

Unfortunately too many people now won't take work unless it drastically improves their situation.

That has always been the case, except for slaves. My grandparents and parents would have been considerably worse off if it wasn't for working. Working paid back then. Your describing a fault with the system, not people's motivation.

 

You expect people to work for nowt? Ain't that communism? If a man works and produces value, he deserves to be better off for producing value. He needs incentives.

 

Many people who have had careers will tell you that over the course of their working life they have had to take sideways moves and even demotions to ultimately advance their careers. This is a concept that seem alien to many on benefits.

 

We have graduates on benefits and youth unemployment is at record highs. Many graduates work minimum wage jobs. The onset of the recession and the continuing 'greater depression' threw many willing workers out of work. Many are underemployed. People do want to work (and quite rightly they expect to be rewarding for doing so and creating value - workers do deserve to share the fruits of their labour).

 

As someone who actually has the responsibility to hire and fire I can tell you now that I wouldn't entertain recruiting you. You have a huge chip on your shoulder about society and believe that you are 'owed'; that isn't an attitude that bodes well for the future or an prospective employer.

That is no worry for me. I doubt I would lie to work for you, as I would in any interview I would be asking about your staff turnover, I would imagine it is high for your industry going on your opinion of people and attitude towards them expressed in this thread. I would have little faith in your business - unless you had some form of state sanctioned monopoly.

 

I bet many people could replace you, what we need is the ability to do this. Competition on a level playing field is key. Currently we have a two tier workforce, one that has many employee rights and another that doesn't (new people entering the labour market).

[chem1st]

If allotments are a necessity for survival, how are the 99.8% of the population who don't have one surviving?

 

You don't need much labour to produce food. And many still have access to food, but increasing numbers of people do not.

 

But if you have no ability to produce food then your screwed, unless you can access food. Many people have been denied access to food, via land price rises and falling wages and unemployment.

 

If there was more access to land, we would all be better off for it. 1 unemployed man could grow food for many, and they could all work together and create new employment and trade and thus prosperity.

[sanman]

This guy has done a good thing with the land and used it productively by SHARING IT, but he started with money and land, and spent vast time and moneys searching for more which he had to pay for!

 

Had he had access to land, he could have been doing productive things a lot more quickly. A lot of the success of the project results from his sharing of the land.

 

So tell me, why would it be a bad thing for people to have access to land via more sharing of it! (Especially idle land or land upon large farms - what with small farms being much more LAND productive...)?

 

The guy got access to the land through hard work. He didn't look for a benevolent state to gift it to him, he understood that if you want anything in this life then you have to work for it.

 

The guy started work in a very low paid job and worked his way up to be a Director in a multi national company. Along the way he worked behind a bar, as a window cleaner a dry stone waller and many other what might be termed as low paid menial jobs. But he understood the value of working for a living and how this would ultimately help him to get where he wanted to be.

 

So Chem1st you seem like an intelligent guy with a genuine desire to improve your and your fellow mans lot, my advice would be to stop complaining about the current system and the land monopoly and concentrate on first improving your own position, and then when you have, looking how you can help people less fortunate. This may well mean becoming part of the system you detest and trying to alter it from the inside.

[sanman]

You don't need much labour to produce food.

 

From that quote alone I can deduce that you have never produced food!