UKIP, BNP & RESPECT all get more votes than coalition combined in Rotherham

[Tony]

Sorry, maybe I used the wrong language but what I mean is that people are leaving school and uni with good qualifications unrealistic expectations and walking straight into low-skilled work, if they get work at all. What I meant was more about deadening of aspirations. This isn't new because as opportunity was stripped away by various processes under Labour the opportunities began to melt away. Along with housing policy, youth employment policy was IMO one of Labour's greatest failings. It sticks in my craw to see them calling other parties on it.

 

 

I hope that you don't mind my amendment.

 

---------- Post added 30-11-2012 at 21:21 ----------

 

The conservative party

protects and expresses the interests of that small part of the people who control wealth.

I believe that the labour movement for all it’s faults tries to look after the people who do the work not the ones who get an unfair return on being fortunate enough to inherit power and wealth.

 

I have no argument against wealth creators; whoever they do have a duty to society to help improve life for everyone.

Without a labour movement the pay and conditions in this country would not improve.

Health and safety at work would hardly matter unless it impacted on profitability.

You only have to look around the world at countries with no labour movement to see the lot of the workers.

I am not saying that labour is perfect or even near ,but at least some within the movement have the right idea.

 

Do you even bother to look at election results and the real world?

 

It's tempting to say that you inhabit an ivory tower, but in reality you're just sitting on top of a pile of **** made up of your own delusions and other peoples lies.

[I1L2T3]

There's nothing wrong with flat tax as long as the personal allowance is set high enough.

 

Indeed. No point in dismissing the idea. Every option needs to be looked at.

Taxation and tax enforcement is one area where all parties have made big mistakes.

[truman]

Probably voting tory would make poor people poorer.

 

Did voting Labour make them richer?

[Conrod]

Sorry, maybe I used the wrong language but what I mean is that people are leaving school and uni with good qualifications and walking straight into low-skilled work, if they get work at all. What I meant was more about deadening of aspirations. This isn't new because as opportunity was stripped away by various processes under Labour the opportunities began to melt away. Along with housing policy, youth employment policy was IMO one of Labour's greatest failings. It sticks in my craw to see them calling other parties on it.

I have to hand it to you I1, you can at times be phenomenally well-balanced. You slip a bit left at times, but then I find myself doffing my cap to you for your honest inputs.

 

Aside from that sticking in your craw (and the SF comrades’ insistence on blaming it on others, which is to be expected), the whole higher education system is broken now.

Back in ‘t day, when I were a lad an’ all that, only the minority of schoolkids gained the ‘O’ levels required for ‘A’ level, even less the ‘A levels for a degree, and a small percentage were academically suited to degree studies.

 

And that was all well, because not all career paths required somebody with a degree or an academic mind. The nation needs tradesmen, skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled – and it needs them in far greater numbers than it needs graduates with more conceptual skillsets. The old education system created, in relatively harmonic balance, graduates, apprentices and unskilled types to suit industry’s and society’s needs.

 

Then came the great socialist drive of ‘higher education for all’. Not only has this degraded our once-esteemed education system by making previously elite qualifications attainable by the mediocre, but it has produced excessive numbers of people with academic qualifications relative to the channels of employment available, and left employers without the tradesmen they need.

 

The result? Lacklustre British academics (who should have been tradesmen) on the dole, and employers needing immigrant trade workers.

Oh, how I love socialism.

[I1L2T3]

I have to hand it to you I1, you can at times be phenomenally well-balanced. You slip a bit left at times, but then I find myself doffing my cap to you for your honest inputs.

 

Aside from that sticking in your craw (and the SF comrades’ insistence on blaming it on others, which is to be expected), the whole higher education system is broken now.

Back in ‘t day, when I were a lad an’ all that, only the minority of schoolkids gained the ‘O’ levels required for ‘A’ level, even less the ‘A levels for a degree, and a small percentage were academically suited to degree studies.

 

And that was all well, because not all career paths required somebody with a degree or an academic mind. The nation needs tradesmen, skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled – and it needs them in far greater numbers than it needs graduates with more conceptual skillsets. The old education system created, in relatively harmonic balance, graduates, apprentices and unskilled types to suit industry’s and society’s needs.

 

Then came the great socialist drive of ‘higher education for all’. Not only has this degraded our once-esteemed education system by making previously elite qualifications attainable by the mediocre, but it has produced excessive numbers of people with academic qualifications relative to the channels of employment available, and left employers without the tradesmen they need.

 

The result? Lacklustre British academics (who should have been tradesmen) on the dole, and employers needing immigrant trade workers.

Oh, how I love socialism.

 

Thanks for the warm words. As far as the main parties go I can't bring myself to support any of them. Everything we have (or don't have) in our society/economy today is the result of successive screw-ups by governments of all flavours.

 

The thing is it isn't about left or right any more. It's about learning about the collective mistakes of both sides, admitting mistakes have been made and then moving forward. Have we got a hope of any party adapting that kind of attitude or even being strong enough to engage in consensus politics on major national issues (except which 'pariah' state to attack next).............Nope. Our political system is totally bust and it isn't serving us.

[Conrod]

Thanks for the warm words. As far as the main parties go I can't bring myself to support any of them. Everything we have (or don't have) in our society/economy today is the result of successive screw-ups by governments of all flavours.

 

The thing is it isn't about left or right any more. It's about learning about the collective mistakes of both sides, admitting mistakes have been made and then moving forward. Have we got a hope of any party adapting that kind of attitude or even being strong enough to engage in consensus politics on major national issues (except which 'pariah' state to attack next).............Nope. Our political system is totally bust and it isn't serving us.

Given the choice, I’d remove party politics in entirety. Just pay the civil service to do the job and every few years hold a policy referendum with a hundred multiple choice questions for the electorate to answer, which set the country’s course for the next few years.

Simples.

[tinfoilhat]

UKIP want out of the EU and lower immigration which plays well in places like Rotherham, but the vast majority of people in Rotherham would be hugely out of pocket if UKIP got in.

 

They want a flat rate income tax which in practice is a massive cut for the rich and a massive hike for the poor.

 

---------- Post added 30-11-2012 at 14:32 ----------

 

 

This is true. However I was thinking the other day how much poorer I became under Labour as I am somebody who works but on fairly low wages, they abolished the 10p tax band, my husband earns a lot less because he is in construction and has been undercut by people from abroad.

 

It's difficult because that traditional workers party has gone and nothing has filled the gap to replace it, I don't really know who to vote for.

 

Correct. But the good people of Rotherham haven't twigged it yet. You've had an mp with his hands in till, a council making bonkers decisions. To top that, with exception of some new build housing, some new (and overpriced in my view) industrial units, maybe a couple of call centres and distribution centres, what's changed ? The town centre is pretty mediocre and unemployment is high, despite 3 labour governments.

 

Do none of the former miners and steelworkers not stop an elected official and ask "why am I voting for you?". Perhaps they do. I think a mere mention of "thatcher" will have them voting labour en masse and thursdays result pretty much confirms it. The sad thing is, the labour party, in my view, hold these constituencies in utter contempt. Nobody in the shadow cabinet can even begin to relate to the vast majority of Rotherham, but then again, they don't have to. The majority of Rotherham will vote for them regardless of how bad it gets and how little their lives improve.

[I1L2T3]

Correct. But the good people of Rotherham haven't twigged it yet. You've had an mp with his hands in till, a council making bonkers decisions. To top that, with exception of some new build housing, some new (and overpriced in my view) industrial units, maybe a couple of call centres and distribution centres, what's changed ? The town centre is pretty mediocre and unemployment is high, despite 3 labour governments.

 

Do none of the former miners and steelworkers not stop an elected official and ask "why am I voting for you?". Perhaps they do. I think a mere mention of "thatcher" will have them voting labour en masse and thursdays result pretty much confirms it. The sad thing is, the labour party, in my view, hold these constituencies in utter contempt. Nobody in the shadow cabinet can even begin to relate to the vast majority of Rotherham, but then again, they don't have to. The majority of Rotherham will vote for them regardless of how bad it gets and how little their lives improve.

 

You see the mistake you are making? You assume that people expect Labour to make things better. More likely they expect Labour not to make things worse. If they look at the Tories they see a possibility that they will make things worse.

 

I know it's not a great advert for party politics but what I'm describing is the reality. It boils down to a question of which party will cause least harm, rather than what good things the parties can do. Most people can't even be bothered to vote anyway. It's a very sad situation.

[tinfoilhat]

You see the mistake you are making? You assume that people expect Labour to make things better. More likely they expect Labour not to make things worse. If they look at the Tories they see a possibility that they will make things worse.

 

I know it's not a great advert for party politics but what I'm describing is the reality. It boils down to a question of which party will cause least harm, rather than what good things the parties can do. Most people can't even be bothered to vote anyway. It's a very sad situation.

 

There's quite a bit of truth there. But by blindly voting for labour year in year out, surely those in power don't need to make the effort. Id bet (and may well check if it wasn't 1.30am !!!) that towns who previously suffered from the demise of heavy industry do better, in every sense, if the seat and local council change hands every so often. Id bet chesterfield, which also got hammered in 80s has better figures all ends up than Rotherham despite being a similar size. Couldn't say for sure but it certainly looks better.

[maxmaximus]

Correct. But the good people of Rotherham haven't twigged it yet. You've had an mp with his hands in till, a council making bonkers decisions. To top that, with exception of some new build housing, some new (and overpriced in my view) industrial units, maybe a couple of call centres and distribution centres, what's changed ? The town centre is pretty mediocre and unemployment is high, despite 3 labour governments.

 

Do none of the former miners and steelworkers not stop an elected official and ask "why am I voting for you?". Perhaps they do. I think a mere mention of "thatcher" will have them voting labour en masse and thursdays result pretty much confirms it. The sad thing is, the labour party, in my view, hold these constituencies in utter contempt. Nobody in the shadow cabinet can even begin to relate to the vast majority of Rotherham, but then again, they don't have to. The majority of Rotherham will vote for them regardless of how bad it gets and how little their lives improve.

 

Maybe the people of Rotherham that vote labour don’t see it as steeling from them, because they pay little or no tax anyway, they probably agree with it because he technically stole the money from those people that paid it and they are the people that are likely to vote for another party or no one at all.

 

You only have to read SF to get an understanding that the average labour voter would be more than happy for politicians to take as much money as possible away from the wealthy.