Manlinose Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The party that offers the electorate the right to referendums and recall by petition as in Switzerland, as well as PR, they would probably have a huge lead over all other parties. Even offering referendums and recall by petition would make them a party that is likely to hold the balance of power in the next election. i'm not sure enough people care enough about this sort of detail health, education, crime, employment and the economy are some of the main issues for most people and a party's policies on these are more relevant to how people vote than electoral reforms i'm not saying it isn't the most important issue for some people - just not enough to elect one MP never mind enough to hold the balance of power ---------- Post added 03-12-2012 at 14:19 ---------- I think some people are getting a bit carried away with regard to UKIP. Next year's county council elections will be a better test of their ability to break through then a by-election where they have been greatly assisted by a daft decision from Rotherham social services. they may have peaked too soon - it may be just the usual mid-term protests - they may be spread too thinly to win a seat - in our electoral system, even if they got 20% of the vote in the next General Election it wouldn't guarantee them one MP Alternatively, if they can keep the bandwagon rolling who knows? - a few more councillors in next year's elections together with an increase in their share of the vote will keep them in the media. they have a rich benefactor and a party leader adept at getting his face on the telly. i'm not convinced they're anywhere near a breakthrough yet (by which I mean the election of an MP) but if they continue to put the hard work in at grass roots levels, and the conservative party doesn't steal too much of their thunder, you just never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well spotted wednesday, I think you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoatwobbler Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 they may have peaked too soon - it may be just the usual mid-term protests - they may be spread too thinly to win a seat - in our electoral system, even if they got 20% of the vote in the next General Election it wouldn't guarantee them one MP Alternatively, if they can keep the bandwagon rolling who knows? - a few more councillors in next year's elections together with an increase in their share of the vote will keep them in the media. they have a rich benefactor and a party leader adept at getting his face on the telly. i'm not convinced they're anywhere near a breakthrough yet (by which I mean the election of an MP) but if they continue to put the hard work in at grass roots levels, and the conservative party doesn't steal too much of their thunder, you just never know UKIP generally don't do very well in council elections. They have less councillors the the Green party. I think they'll do well in European elections in 2014, becuase European elections allow them to campaign on their pet issue, plus the voting system used in European elections works in their favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Following the recent by-elections, the Conservative vote fell -11% in Rotherham whilst UKIP's rose by 15%, in Middlesbrough the Cons vote fell by 13% whilst UKIP's rose by 8%. In the south (Croyden North), the Cons vote was down 7% whilst UKIP was up only 4%. UKIP came 2nd in both the Middlesbrough and Rotherham, whilst taking 3rd place behind both Lab and the Cons in Croyden. If so, with UKIP attracting so much support from the Cons, will the Cons ever be able to claim to be a national party again? By-elections prove nothing, The Tories will never do well in Rotherham and Middlesbrough. Looking at last month's PCC election results across the whole north the Tories' percentages of 1st preference votes were; Cheshire 36.8 (1st), Cleveland 26 (2nd), Cumbria 29 (1st), Durham 9.8 (4th), Manchester 15.6 (2nd), Humberside 22% (2nd), Lancashire 34.8 (2nd), Meseyside 12.6 (2nd), North Yorkshire 58.3% (1st), Northumbria 25.6 (2nd), South Yorkshire 14.51 (3rd) and West Yorkshire 21.1 (3rd). UKIP failed to stand in a lot of areas even though they only needed one candidate in each. The Tories beat them in all the areas they did contest except Durham. At full elections people vote to be governed. UKIP are not in a position to be anything other than a protest vote. Only at European elections will UKIP candidates get elected in any meaningful number. At the next general election UKIP might get more votes than the Lib-Dems but still end up with no seats while the Lib-Dems will keep some of theirs. The Tories will still out-poll UKIP in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday1 Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Further evidence if needed that UKIP are very much to the right of the ConDems was provided by Nigel Fargage response to the 'Chancellors' autumn statement, as he calls for even more cuts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/news/uk-politics-20612624 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Web Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Further evidence if needed that UKIP are very much to the right of the ConDems was provided by Nigel Fargage response to the 'Chancellors' autumn statement, as he calls for even more cuts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/news/uk-politics-20612624 Plus UKIP are the new racist party for the north now the BNP have almost disapeared so they will mop up the old BNP voters, and with many Muslims doing well in these tough economic times UKIP cannot be ignored anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Plus UKIP are the new racist party for the north now the BNP have almost disapeared so they will mop up the old BNP voters, and with many Muslims doing well in these tough economic times UKIP cannot be ignored anymore. I'm missing the point of this somehow. I thought the complaints about immigration centred around the 'they're just coming here to scrounge' school of thought. Surely 'many Muslims' doing well is the sort of thing we all want to hear? Although why Muslims, whose families may well have been here for decades and not just 'many immigrants' doing well? Its worth noting that the top of the Times Rich List is mainly inhabited by people who weren't born in the UK. Non British birth places include India, Russia, Norway and the USA. They have brought wealth and jobs to the UK, I don't think that is something we should complain about, unless they aren't paying their taxes. http://www.therichest.org/nation/sunday-times-rich-list/ UKIP don't appear to have much in the way of policies apart from being non-European and severely curtailing immigration, however I don't put them in anywhere near the same category as the BNP in terms of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I'm missing the point of this somehow. I thought the complaints about immigration centred around the 'they're just coming here to scrounge' school of thought. Yes you're missing something, there are many reasons why people want to cut or stop immigration and I wouldn’t think it centred on the 'they're just coming here to scrounge' school of thought. Many people just think that there are already enough people here because the country is the most densely populated country in Europe and many think it’s about jobs and the lack of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Web Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I'm missing the point of this somehow. I thought the complaints about immigration centred around the 'they're just coming here to scrounge' school of thought. Surely 'many Muslims' doing well is the sort of thing we all want to hear? Although why Muslims, whose families may well have been here for decades and not just 'many immigrants' doing well? Yes this is what UKIPers complain about but as we know its simply not true, like most racists they often choose false selective examples. Seeing many small independent Muslim / Chinese businesses such as those in Sharrow whom they've significantly helped made prosperous and gentrifying our neglected inner cities will be shunned as UKIP supporters obviously will vehemently hate seeing BME's doing well for themselves. Its worth noting that the top of the Times Rich List is mainly inhabited by people who weren't born in the UK. Non British birth places include India, Russia, Norway and the USA. They have brought wealth and jobs to the UK, I don't think that is something we should complain about, unless they aren't paying their taxes. http://www.therichest.org/nation/sunday-times-rich-list/ UKIP don't appear to have much in the way of policies apart from being non-European and severely curtailing immigration, however I don't put them in anywhere near the same category as the BNP in terms of racism. UKIP's policies are founded on hatred like the BNP's was, however they're more subtle, educated, their members wear suits instead of tracksuits, they're much better at marketing themselves, they appeal to underclass and middle class racists so they will do more damage than the BNP could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good mood Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Think of an overbearing and controling father that bullies and manipulates his wife and children within the confines of their home, but is forced to be all nicey nicey when away from that environment in front of other people, and so cant wait to be back home where he can be Mr big man again. That is how I view UKIP with regard to Britain's membership of the European Union; they want Britain and British workers out of an organisation in which they're looked after so they can bounce them around and manipulate them. Working class people voting for UKIP is like turkey's voting for Christmas; UKIP fight the corner of the nasty element of the business/management class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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