Harleyman Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If we're discussing sectarian mentality, difficult to exclude them isn't it? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is it not? So why do nationalist councillors want to remove the UK flag from their Town Hall? Sectarianism perhaps on the part of the nationalists? If it was done right the UK flag would fly on top of the pole and any other flag underneath it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepsendlane Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 If it was done right the UK flag would fly on top of the pole and any other flag underneath it Why not side by side in Dublin as well . We are all in it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ireland was partitioned to deny Catholics in the six counties their right to self-determination. Ireland was partitioned because the Protestants opposed an Irish Republic. They were loyal to the UK - hence they're Loyalists. They were so opposed to the Irish Republic that they took up arms about it, which was before any 'trouble' had even begun. There has been anti-Catholic discrimination there ever since. That's certainly true, yes. It's unjustifiable also. Ireland will be reunited when a majority of the inhabitants of the six counties want it and all the constitutional changes are agreed with Eire. It may take decades but it will happen. I don't fully agree with your prediction. It may happen, but to consider it a certainty is a little wild, I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Everyone should benefit from the peace process. If you think your comrades in the IRA have fully disbanded you are very naive. Why are they still murdering? Reading through your posts it's clear where your politics lie. The province and most people in it support the peace process but some on the Loyalist and Republican fringes oppose it. I never said the IRA fully disbanded. I previously mentioned both the Continuity and Real IRA as organisations that have carried on the armed struggle having broken away from the IRA over the peace process. It is these dissidents and not the old IRA who are continuing the war. The old IRA has given up. The dissidents are still murdering because they want the island of Ireland - all 32 counties - to be a united Irish state. If you don't know that then you're not really up to date with what's going on over there on the Republican side. I don't fully agree with your prediction. It may happen, but to consider it a certainty is a little wild, I feel. I think that over time Irish nationalism will prevail but it may not be in the lifetime of many alive today. There are some states - Israel, Northern Ireland - that are kept going through military strength despite any agreement. Such a need for force to maintain the status quo can't last indefinitely. Go back 30 years and it would have been considered wild to predict the end of Soviet communism and the idea of Paisley and Adams sharing power. Go back 2 years and look for how many people foresaw Lybia and Egypt overthrowing their dictators. Things change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlepup Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 funny how the thread (about LOYALISTS) gets hijacked and turned around to have a go at the nationalists instead???? what i read in the paper was that A: nationalists wanted the flags down permently. B: the powers that be had a meeting and decided it could fly on 17 special days C: its the LOYALISTS that spat the dummy out, as far as im aware the nationalists were ok about it still flying for those 17 days? My family are rabid Irish republicans. Even they think that this has been handled badly and in a way which appears to be deliberately inflammatory.. It seems deliberately intended to cause this kind of reaction. It could have been handled much more sensitively in a piecemeal way to have the flag gradually flown less often. After all in northern Ireland things have always worked better when both sides are sensitively dealt with rather than decisions being made which are so obviously partisan to one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think that over time Irish nationalism will prevail but it may not be in the lifetime of many alive today. There are some states - Israel, Northern Ireland - that are kept going through military strength despite any agreement. Such a need for force to maintain the status quo can't last indefinitely. Go back 30 years and it would have been considered wild to predict the end of Soviet communism and the idea of Paisley and Adams sharing power. Go back 2 years and look for how many people foresaw Lybia and Egypt overthrowing their dictators. Things change. Given military operations ended in 2007 I don't see how Ulster is "kept going through military strength". At the height of the "Celtic tiger" boom electoral support for SF in the republic was less than 10%. Now it's all gone pete tong, electoral support for SF is still less than 10%. In ulster despite a slightly higher catholic birth rate emigration of nationalists has pretty much cancelled that out as a factor. There are large overwhelmingly nationalist areas which could very easily be incorporated into the republic with little problem, but SF would never support that as it would totally change the balance of power against them in the remainder. Ulster will remain British and both sides will just have to learn to get along and an increasingly competitive world should give them the motivation to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaFan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One of the odd things about Loyalists is that it's such an important part of their identity that they are British and loyal to the British state, yet most British people couldn't give a gnat's fart about them. It seems a very one-way relationship and they seem very insecure and needy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One of the odd things about Loyalists is that it's such an important part of their identity that they are British and loyal to the British state, yet most British people couldn't give a gnat's fart about them. It seems a very one-way relationship and they seem very insecure and needy. There are plenty of things most British people do not to give a gnats fart about that are discussed on forums such as this, social media and the media generally, does that put all those things in the domain of the insecure and needy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 One of the odd things about Loyalists is that it's such an important part of their identity that they are British and loyal to the British state, yet most British people couldn't give a gnat's fart about them. It seems a very one-way relationship and they seem very insecure and needy. The nationalists desire to be part of a state whose people give even less of a gnats fart about them would make them worse or better in your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Tamudo Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 my father worked down the mines because it was all there was, when the mines closed he moved on, as did we. I managed perfectly well to do reasonably OK, even as the son of a miner... .................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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