convert Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You'd end up with what happens in every other system of that type. People will exchange the vouchers for things they really want, probably in a black market where tax and duty are not paid. It would be ultimately utterly self-defeating. I'd be interested to the other systems where this has been introduced. Could you supply some examples please? I do think that we have the technology to ensure that only those entitled to the benefit use it (biometric systems are getting cheaper and cheaper). ---------- Post added 13-12-2012 at 08:18 ---------- How old are you 150? You need to get with the times ! How about soup kitchens instead of vouchers ? Get real JSA wouldnt cover 200 fags a week never mind the rest of what you assume jobseekers have the luxury of. Agree with latter part of your post though . Not quite, but I do feel it sometimes Getting with the times would be great, however I don't feel that it is I who needs to adapt; it's the workshy and feckless, they need to realise that the gravy train is coming to an end. I do think that for those in real need, the homeless, soup kitchens provide an essential lifetime; especially at this time of year? Don't you? You say that JSA wouldn't cover 200 fags, well it might not, but how cany anyone on benefits even afford to waste £7 on 20 fags? Some do, though; although I expect most aren't paying any duty on cigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'd be interested to the other systems where this has been introduced. Could you supply some examples please? I do think that we have the technology to ensure that only those entitled to the benefit use it (biometric systems are getting cheaper and cheaper). ---------- Post added 13-12-2012 at 08:18 ---------- How do you propose to stop them exchanging their vouchers for beans, and then exchanging the beans for cigarettes? Biometrics and vouchers won't stop someone converting vouchers into a consumable and then exchanging that consumable for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convert Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How do you propose to stop them exchanging their vouchers for beans, and then exchanging the beans for cigarettes? Biometrics and vouchers won't stop someone converting vouchers into a consumable and then exchanging that consumable for something else. I wouldn't. If they are stupid enough to do that then they deserve to go hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How do you propose to stop them exchanging their vouchers for beans, and then exchanging the beans for cigarettes? Biometrics and vouchers won't stop someone converting vouchers into a consumable and then exchanging that consumable for something else. What percentage of unemployed people smoke? There's nothing like stereotyping people is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 What percentage of unemployed people smoke? There's nothing like stereotyping people is there? It was simply an example of why a voucher system or electronic equivalent is pointless as it's easily circumvented. I wasn't the one suggesting that benefits shouldn't be spent on cigarettes, alcohol, holidays or sky tv. But if we total up how many unemployed people smoke OR drink OR want a holiday OR would like sky tv, then it's probably close to 100%. But well done for missing the point so entirely. ---------- Post added 13-12-2012 at 08:54 ---------- I wouldn't. If they are stupid enough to do that then they deserve to go hungry. So why bother with a voucher system at all, then, let them spend the money how they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convert Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 So why bother with a voucher system at all, then, let them spend the money how they choose. I think we need to move to a voucher system to discourage spending on non essential items. There will always be those who go to the black market for fags, lottery tickets and booze, all we can do is make the punishment harsher for those supplying these goods. No system will ever be perfect, but we need some action on this problem. We simply can't afford to do nothing. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 They can afford very basic food and thats about it! The first thing that suffers in winter is heating in the home because they cant afford to buy as much as is required or needed ! . £25 a week extra paid when there is cold weather to those on JSA, pension creidts etc.... and you cannot heat they house with that? I'm surprised lets say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think we need to move to a voucher system to discourage spending on non essential items. There will always be those who go to the black market for fags, lottery tickets and booze, all we can do is make the punishment harsher for those supplying these goods. No system will ever be perfect, but we need some action on this problem. We simply can't afford to do nothing. What would you do? Why can't we do nothing? If we provide enough money for them to buy food and essentials, and they manage to save a £1 a week and save up for a few beers a the end of the month then why is this wrong? So long as the amount they are given is appropriate, then how they spend it teaches them important lessons about budgeting which will still apply when they find work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convert Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Why can't we do nothing? If we provide enough money for them to buy food and essentials, and they manage to save a £1 a week and save up for a few beers a the end of the month then why is this wrong? So long as the amount they are given is appropriate, then how they spend it teaches them important lessons about budgeting which will still apply when they find work. £1 a week is not going to buy a 'few' beers at the end of the month though, is it? Times are tight, we all need to prioritise how we spend our (hard earned!) cash. There are a lot of folks out there, working their fingers to the bone, who can't afford even a single beer at the end of the month. They have WORKED for their money, so they can decide exactly how it should be spent. Ask yourself, are these folks buying their ciggies from the corner shop, or the bloke down the road who sells at a lower price (depriving us of the tax revenue)? Are they gambling / smoking / drinking their benefit money and then crying poverty? The problem is that those at the bottom of the ladder never learn the budgeting lessons; other than bendoveranpassthevaselineloans.com will help them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prime Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Well surprise surprise, it's not as though we didn't expect you to endorse financial action against the weakest in society. Are you a member of the Socialist Workers Party by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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