maxmaximus Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not all jobs can simply replace skilled people with someone off the street. And the reason that unions formed originally is still valid, so that the workers collectively have bargaining power with their employer. As individuals they are very weak, as a group they are stronger. I agree and clearly highly skilled workers have some bargaining power but we are talking about low skilled, low paid workers and the unemployed, and they have little or no bargaining power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wonder what VAT Man and The Boy Blunder will say in 2015 when they want votes from all the people they've kicked in the teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I agree and clearly highly skilled workers have some bargaining power but we are talking about low skilled, low paid workers and the unemployed, and they have little or no bargaining power. They never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 people want to come here as it is easy to scam the benefit system, with free education,health care what more does someone from a poorer country want Not all of them come here to scam the system why do you think foreign country's want to invest in this country,they know there is money to be made here with trade. ---------- Post added 07-12-2012 at 09:34 ---------- I would be so scared to talk like you do........just in case fate bit me in the arse! I have witnessed those high up the ladder, fall off it...........and end up with nothing! It isn't allways about working hard for what you have. Sometimes our plans for life just don't work out the way we wished. Nobody asks to be made too ill to work. Nobody asks to lose their job and as a result their home. We need to employ common sense and compassion here and each person should be assessed on their personal circumstances and not be automatically classed as a sponger because their lives have taken an unexpected turn for the worst. I hate what this country is turning into. It's like "dog eat dog"..............but then again, isn't that what the government wants? Divide and conquer! We need to support those that genuinely need support and we need to deal with those that are idle and feckless............but we must NOT confuse the two. The problem is that it's much easier and cheaper for the government and it's relevant agencies to lump all benefit claimants together and then throw money at some other useless agency who will ruthlessly tell a quadruple amputee that he's fit to go and work on a production line in a factory! I agree with everything you say but Its not all been rose's for me Iv'e been on my arese a few times down to my last few quid Iv'e done all sorts in the past even selling spuds off the back of my van to earn a few quid, granted there are some people who have medical problems and can not work but there is a lot that play on it as well, its always been a dog eat dog life here and jobs for life have long gone I still think it is the best country in the world and if you can not get on here you will never get on, and before you say it no I am not a tory and never have been just a normal self-employed bloke. ---------- Post added 07-12-2012 at 10:04 ---------- Trade unions are not 'past it'. We need them more than ever, BUT they need bringing up to date. My own union, the GMB seem to be more interested in selling financial services than fighting for better terms and conditions for its members. Its our [the members] fault, we dont push them hard enough. These days I am too knackered [and approaching retirement] to care and the youngsters havent a clue what the purpose of a Union is. All the youngsters care about is what the latest phone will do.....innit??? ---------- Post added 07-12-2012 at 03:04 ---------- Idiot, read the other posts on this thread. When your luck runs out, your health is compromised, you get a critical illness or a terminal condition you need and EXPECT help. Thanks to people not unlike yourself, the help is not forthcoming. With luck you will see the light one day and grow up. ---------- Post added 07-12-2012 at 03:08 ---------- Idiot, read the other posts on this thread. When your luck runs out, your health is compromised, you get a critical illness or a terminal condition you need and EXPECT help. Thanks to people not unlike yourself, the help is not forthcoming. With luck you will see the light one day and grow up. Try living in somewhere like Turkey or some far off country you don't get anything there you just die if your family don't look after you, this country looks after it poor and sick and has always done you have to travel to other country's to see how well off we are here,it might be a bit of a struggle on benefits but a least you get some kind of sustenance and help, and like I said my luck has run out a lot of times but I have always got on with it even in Thatchers time I made a few quid and kept going I dint sit around moaning about things,Iv'e never had no help or hands out from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I wonder what VAT Man and The Boy Blunder will say in 2015 when they want votes from all the people they've kicked in the teeth? I think they are more concerned about fixing Labours mess than actually wanting to buy votes - that was Labours last party trick after all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 How do you think we would have fared under a Tory Government you have to remember the whole world was and still is in resection at the time, I can remember the last resection we had under the Torys and that was not a nice time they left the place in a state,they were doing the same thing then hitting the unemployed and sick they always do they would have it like Bob Cratchit times if they could get away with it where the rich get richer and the poor just dry up and blow away there would be no sick to worry about in their world as there would be no national health or unemployment benefit if it was up to them, back to Victorian times thank God for socialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Meanwhile, in a country not too far from here, where 'Labour'/'Socialists' are back in charge, we get to witness their latest attempts at improving workers' lot. Link. Edifying. Then again, not. Labour, Tory, LibDems, ConDems, whatnot...what does it really matter? I wish the debate would elevate somewhat, it gets samey so quickly these days (and yes, I am well aware of the irony of the post, considering its opening sentence - though that's provided for context, not for political point-scoring). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 How do you think we would have fared under a Tory Government you have to remember the whole world was and still is in resection at the time, I can remember the last resection we had under the Torys and that was not a nice time they left the place in a state,they were doing the same thing then hitting the unemployed and sick they always do they would have it like Bob Cratchit times if they could get away with it where the rich get richer and the poor just dry up and blow away there would be no sick to worry about in their world as there would be national health or unemployment benefit if it was up to them, back to Victorian times thank God for socialism. I presume you mean recession? Not resection? It's always bad during a recession, regardless of who is in power, but it's they way you go about fixing it that's important. It generally seems to be that Labour causes the recessions, and the Conservatives have to fix them though. Regarding the other point. it is up to them at the moment, and we do have these things. I'm not sure what your complaint is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I presume you mean recession? Not resection? It's always bad during a recession, regardless of who is in power, but it's they way you go about fixing it that's important. It generally seems to be that Labour causes the recessions, and the Conservatives have to fix them though. Regarding the other point. it is up to them at the moment, and we do have these things. I'm not sure what your complaint is? Sorry about the spelling always been a poor speller,what I mean is the Torys would like to get rid of the national health and benefits they think you should pay for every thing up front its their way, socialism has fought for the rights of the working man and the sick every thing we have now in the way of social help was brought out by a Labour government,before that we had means tests and work houses and the Doctor would not come to your house unless you payed that is the world Torys would have if they had it their way that just can not be right, the working man and sick and unemployed are always under threat when the Torys get in just look back to the last lot to see it, personally I dont care who is in I just get on with it and try and make a living by hook or crook I seem to have got by, I must admit it has not been one of the best times I have been through and I think there is a lot more hardship for some to come yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've never met a mainstream Conservative, or indeed any of the fringe ones who think that the NHS and welfare system should be abolished. There may be differing ideas about the scope and provision, but none of them want to see them removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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