Halibut Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Me and my (female) partner have no interest in having kids. Our lifestyle choice is in NO WAY selfish or any less valid than anyone else's. I am contiunually disgusted by the selfish way parents inflict their spawn on the rest of the population in public places. If you're a proud parent then great - but a truly happy person does not feel the need to insult people who's harmless lifestyle choices in no way effect them. Amen sister. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K G Bird Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Amen sister. xxx Oh very clever.... Ok, you have actually made me smirk now and thus chilled me out a bit... so ta:P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Whatever Islam is or is not, the Village People of world religions it ain't. It's extremely homophobic. Let's not waste time and effort pretending otherwise. Homophobia is a cultural phenomenom and is not directly related to religious teachings.Have you ever visited an Islamic country like Tunisia,or even read the Qran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Me and my (female) partner have no interest in having kids. Our lifestyle choice is in NO WAY selfish or any less valid than anyone else's. I am contiunually disgusted by the selfish way parents inflict their spawn on the rest of the population in public places. If you're a proud parent then great - but a truly happy person does not feel the need to insult people who's harmless lifestyle choices in no way effect them. Well you're not doing too bad yourself in the insults department referring to peoples kid's as spawn. What would you have parents do when they need to take or have no option but to take their kids to public places.... store them in left luggage lockers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K G Bird Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Well you're not doing too bad yourself in the insults department referring to peoples kid's as spawn. What would you have parents do when they need to take or have no option but to take their kids to public places.... store them in left luggage lockers ? I'm only talking about the badly behaved children and selfish parents that don't control them, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandr Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 They are - the amusing thing being that neither of them actually realise how much they have in common. ... That must be your very first, albeit veiled (burqad?), critisism of Muslims! And I thought you were of the opinion that they were lovely people who belonged to 'the religion of peace'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffy23 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Amen sister. xxx Oh you are so "right on" Hows your gammy teeth by the way? Discovered Colgate yet? ---------- Post added 23-12-2012 at 22:46 ---------- That must be your very first, albeit veiled (burqad?), critisism of Muslims! And I thought you were of the opinion that they were lovely people who belonged to 'the religion of peace'! Thats a myth. Just like the easter bunny and the tooth fairy. Father Christmas is real though and i wont have anyone say different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Web Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Ok, I'll go into detail now. blues1 said You replied and then gave Quotes from WikiIslam to try to prove this claim, but none of the quotes were from the Quran. When I challenged this you gave quotes from the Quran to establish Islam wasn't in favour of Homosexuality - I agree, but that still doesn't back up your claim that the Quran says If man lies down with man kill the man, and if your going to criticise something it has to be factually and contextually correct, otherwise the scope for change is minimal and the scope for reaction (which can be violent) is increased. So I'll deal with your last post here, some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. There are two ways of looking at any ideolgy, one is to look at it as a whole and criticise it accordingly, one is to look at the central doctrine contextually and criticise those aspects which are central to it. Both have there merits, for example looking at Islam as a whole and criticising terrorism within it is fine when in context that there are some Muslims who are not terrorists - but to understand why some take to terrorism we have to understand the religion on a deeper level, if we don't we are in danger, as many on here do, of having the attitude that Islam is a religion that encourages terrorism. This not only alienates the majority of Muslims that aren't terrorists but it also takes us dangerously close to the idealogy that to remove terrorism we only need remove Islam - and it's thinking like this that leads to genocide. So to understand Islam we need to understand it's structure and heirarchy, which goes Quran - irrefutable word of God, hadith/sunnah - examples given by a man that sometimes expand on the Quran, sometimes contradict it. My single biggest issue with 'living' Islam is that Muslims claim none are equal to God (or his word) and then to institute certain political/philosophical ideologies they use the words of Mohammad to implement 'Islamic' laws which according to the context of the religion itself are anti Islamic. The implementation of some of the hadith over the Quran is elevating Mohammad over God - working with those Muslims that don't understand this is paramount to making change within Islam. It is not in favour of homosexuality - but time and time again in the Quran it says those who go against God will be punished by God in the next life, and creating this understanding amongst those who believe in the Quran is a compromise that would protect gay people from men seeking to implement their own punishment on 'Gods' behalf while not alienating 'Islam' as a religion. Of course we don't have to try to find balance - we could just say God doesn't exist and those that believe are backwards - but all that will do is incite reaction. Which shows that the Quran is not in favour of homosexuality, not that we should kill homosexuals on the behalf of God. This is where open and unprejudice criticism can take place. This verse means that only humans amongst all of the animal kingdom take part in homosexuality - this can be demonstrated scientifically as being incorrect (just as an aside - my dog is gay ) It is by taking the claims made by Islam/Muslims like this that we can make a case that Islam is not the one true religion - and by introducing people to proper critical analysis they can then make their own mind up as to whether thay choose to follow that religion or not - but, and this is a very important but - it has to be a choice made by the individual and (I realise I keep bringing this up) merely saying 'Islam is homophobic and seeks to kill gays' will not endear the Muslim to critical analysis of what your saying, it wont open dialogue and it wont allow us to introduce open ideas. I know many tolerant Muslims (and I know gay Muslims who live amongst other Muslims and aren't killed for their sexuality). Wikipedia is not the same as WikiIslam. WikiIslam claims to give critical and balanced analysis of Islam yet every article seeks only the negative aspect of the faith (for example it's 'Islam in the news' section only gives negative news stories - I'm not sure how that in any way is balanced) you cannot give a balanced analysis of something if your default position is against that thing - I will stand up and be counted for my criticism of Islam (I don't believe it and am unlikely to ever believe it) but my criticism is based on the religion itself and analysis of it and not on a default position of disagreeing with it from my own philosophical viewpoint. Now, let's get back to the reason I disagreed with you to begin with - where in the Quran does it say You can try and defend Islamic homophobic violence by dressing it up how you like but the bottom line its the Hadiths which they follow and implement, and their prophet Mohammed said kill'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 You can try and defend Islamic homophobic violence by dressing it up how you like but the bottom line its the Hadiths which they follow and implement, and their prophet Mohammed said kill'em. You funny. I'm not dressing anything up or defending any homophobic violence I'm addressing a claim you specifically made. As you seem completely unable to provide us with a quote from the Quran that backs up your claim that it says kill gays I will assume that when you told blues1 that it did you were wrong. You have every right to ignore the structure and ideology of Islam if you wish in order to push a one sided view of what you want the religion to be portrayed as (exactly the same thing that extremists who claim to follow Islam do) but when it comes down to it the facts simply don't back up your view and that is why instead of taking the religion as it claims to be in it's own scriptures in context people like you (on both sides) have to ignore its structure in order to push your point. If you want to talk about Islam and homosexuality in the Quran (which, as I have previously stated, I disagree with them on) I am more than happy to do so but if you want to push an agenda then when its challenged try to deflect the fact your wrong by changing the focus then you will have to find another sparring partner because I have not got the time or the energy to play games with people who have such a black and white view of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Hobart Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Homophobia is a cultural phenomenom and is not directly related to religious teachings.Have you ever visited an Islamic country like Tunisia,or even read the Qran? You don't need to visit an Islamic country to sample the delights of the followers of big Mo. Camp it up and walk hand in hand with your male partner around parts of Leicester or Oldham and you will see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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