More shootings in USA

[Lotusflower]

Do you seriously believe that my presumption are based on a few lines? Read this and the other thread then come back and make the ""narrow minded" accusation again...preferably by PM otherwise my reply may be a catalyst for the thread being closed.

 

 

 

 

How is it possible Pete to make comments, voice opinions, ask questions, when the two most ignorant posters on here somehow think that unless you own a US passport, have lived and or worked in the US constantly, voice that your opinion is simply void? Their argument has nothing to do with opinions or questions being made other than "We are Americans you are not..so shut up American haters"

 

Not one poster on here has professed to be an American hater, there are those that dismiss a point of view or argument based on, and happily admitting being proud of ignoring information/evidence. How does any debate even if off topic go forward when their credibility as debaters is non existent even by their own admission?

 

The same said two protagonists constantly side step valid points and questions by turning those questions into a frenzy of SF hate and even inc SF admin at the same time.

 

As for back on topic, I made that point at the end of my last post, but again ignored. To be expected though.

 

I'm out, like many other posters.

 

Firstly, what Pete is saying is true. I'm not sucking up to the mods, the admin or anyone else here. They do a thankless job to the best of their ability. I wouldn't do it for a gold pig and a pension.

 

My apologies if I'm poking my nose in here but I have a couple of observations on what you are saying.

I recognise your frustrations...I feel just like you do and perhaps even angrier at times.

If you could read my mind as I read some posts and see debate scuppered you would understand. If I posted some of those thoughts I would rightly be coshed with the big banning stick...and then torture myself for allowing myself to be drawn into an infant school playground na, na, na, na,na, tit for tat squabble.

I've tried to lead the horses to water without success since I joined in January 2008. If they don't want to drink then keep trying without being dragged down or just learn to bite the bullet...no pun intended.

 

Forgive me if I come across as a patronising old fart, sometimes I just need to say what I feel.

[ronthenekred]

 

Forgive me if I come across as a patronising old fart.

 

Nothing from this corner to forgive swami.

[buck]

I will contionue the debate without having to meet insult with insult such as being called anal. For that purpose, I will ignore some of the most blatant posters who continue to send out pointless and repetitive posts in regard to the gun situation in America. I have made my point that I am deeply regretful and sorrowful that so many innocents died in Newtown, and how difficult it will be to change things. For this I have been accused of being a gun nut, a liar who supposedly lives in Sheffield now, none of which is true. I am a retired Royal Navy CPO, of which service I am very proud. Even this has had me called a war monger. I am the grandfather of 5 girls, and 2 boys. Megan, my 11 year old has high honors at school as was her cousin Betty in High School. None of which is relevent of course, except to point out they are the best that America is capable of, and I had a lot to do with that. Not bad for a "pretend American".

[Lotusflower]

I will contionue the debate without having to meet insult with insult such as being called anal. For that purpose, I will ignore some of the most blatant posters who continue to send out pointless and repetitive posts in regard to the gun situation in America. I have made my point that I am deeply regretful and sorrowful that so many innocents died in Newtown, and how difficult it will be to change things. For this I have been accused of being a gun nut, a liar who supposedly lives in Sheffield now, none of which is true. I am a retired Royal Navy CPO, of which service I am very proud. Even this has had me called a war monger. I am the grandfather of 5 girls, and 2 boys. Megan, my 11 year old has high honors at school as was her cousin Betty in High School. None of which is relevent of course, except to point out they are the best that America is capable of, and I had a lot to do with that. Not bad for a "pretend American".

 

Re my bold.

 

Nobody has to meet insult with insult Buck. It is purely a matter of taking responsibility for one's own choices. Choose to be mature and debate reasonably or not.

Please do not take this as directed at you personally because it is not. It's a personal observation of how I see it.

 

To get back to the thread now...something has to change.

The slaughter of innocents is an unacceptable consequence of the status quo. Can we agree on this much at least?

[buck]

Re my bold.

 

Nobody has to meet insult with insult Buck. It is purely a matter of taking responsibility for one's own choices. Choose to be mature and debate reasonably or not.

Please do not take this as directed at you personally because it is not. It's a personal observation of how I see it.

 

To get back to the thread now...something has to change.

The slaughter of innocents is an unacceptable consequence of the status quo. Can we agree on this much at least?

Of course we can. I have repeated it over and over, only to have it thrown back at me. The problem is how, and what will do the most good. We are not going to be able to remove millions of guns in five minutes. We can enforce stricter bans on assault rifles and magazines larger than five rounds, and we should. It needs to be a federal ban and not state by state. We have to do a much better job of monitoring who is issued a license with any trace of mental illness including autism an automatic disqualification. WE should not be able to buy a weapon from anywhere but a licensed dealer, who has to submit the weapon for registration. Concealed weapons should also be banned. Going on and on about how much safer Britain is doesn't change a thing. It only serves to irritate when there is no idea on how to make things better, and with little or no sympathy for our victims.

There, I've stated my position for what its worth.

 

---------- Post added 30-12-2012 at 09:12 ----------

 

Re my bold.

 

Nobody has to meet insult with insult Buck. It is purely a matter of taking responsibility for one's own choices. Choose to be mature and debate reasonably or not.

Please do not take this as directed at you personally because it is not. It's a personal observation of how I see it.

 

To get back to the thread now...something has to change.

The slaughter of innocents is an unacceptable consequence of the status quo. Can we agree on this much at least?

Of course we can. I have repeated it over and over, only to have it thrown back at me. The problem is how, and what will do the best good. We are not going to be able to remove millions of guns in five minutes. We can enforce stricter bans on assault rifles and magazines larger than five rounds, and we should. It needs to be a federal ban and not state by state. We have to do a much better job of monitoring who is issued a license with any trace of mental illness including autism an automatic disqualification. WE should not be able to buy a weapon from anywhere but a licensed dealer, who has to submit the weapon for registration. Concealed weapons should also be banned.

There, I've stated my position for what its worth.

[ronthenekred]

 

To get back to the thread now...something has to change.

The slaughter of innocents is an unacceptable consequence of the status quo.

 

 

The status quo seems to be the result of apathy. The NRA are not apathetic, they are actually constructive and succeeding against any if not all forms of progressive anti gun lobbying.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/map-gun-laws-2009-2012

 

Vision without action is a daydream, action without vision is a nightmare.

 

"Removing all guns in 5 minutes" as some posters would suggest others have made is a decoy. No one has suggested it. If they did, which I doubt then I would say they are naive.

[Lotusflower]

Of course we can. I have repeated it over and over, only to have it thrown back at me. The problem is how, and what will do the most good. We are not going to be able to remove millions of guns in five minutes. We can enforce stricter bans on assault rifles and magazines larger than five rounds, and we should. It needs to be a federal ban and not state by state. We have to do a much better job of monitoring who is issued a license with any trace of mental illness including autism an automatic disqualification. WE should not be able to buy a weapon from anywhere but a licensed dealer, who has to submit the weapon for registration. Concealed weapons should also be banned. Going on and on about how much safer Britain is doesn't change a thing. It only serves to irritate when there is no idea on how to make things better, and with little or no sympathy for our victims.

There, I've stated my position for what its worth.

 

---------- Post added 30-12-2012 at 09:12 ----------

 

Of course we can. I have repeated it over and over, only to have it thrown back at me. The problem is how, and what will do the best good. We are not going to be able to remove millions of guns in five minutes. We can enforce stricter bans on assault rifles and magazines larger than five rounds, and we should. It needs to be a federal ban and not state by state. We have to do a much better job of monitoring who is issued a license with any trace of mental illness including autism an automatic disqualification. WE should not be able to buy a weapon from anywhere but a licensed dealer, who has to submit the weapon for registration. Concealed weapons should also be banned.

There, I've stated my position for what its worth.

 

You're probably not going to thank me for saying this but your position is uncannily close to that of a fellow American...namely Michael Moore. He wants to regulate ammunition as well as the things you've suggested.

 

Let's hope that the voice of reason prevails and the NRA have to succumb to public will. I read the press over there on line and there does seem to be a mood of change after Newtown.

[ronthenekred]

 

Let's hope that the voice of reason prevails and the NRA have to succumb to public will. I read the press over there on line and there does seem to be a mood of change after Newtown.

 

While the momentum is in place that mood needs now to manifest itself as constructive action.

[PeteMorris]

Just a quick word of thanks...it's good to see the thread back to what it should be doing...debating

[sanman]

The implementation gun control in the US is likely to be a long and difficult road for many reasons. The logistics themselves will be a nightmare akin to asking all the folk in the Europe to hand across their mobile phones; no register of who has what, peoples 'emotional' attachment to them, and many that the owner has probably forgot about.

 

However I think it is a road that the US must embark upon and has been said it needs to be a Federal law without any grandfather clauses. As part of control I would like to see an educational element; everyone who wants to own a gun should have to attend a safety course.

 

Having said all that I would hate to see the US go to the extremes of the UK with gun control. There are many people in the US who get a great deal of pleasure from target shooting and hunting and their ability to do that should not be removed as it has largely been in the UK.