Are the Wed 2nd January 2013 inflation busting train fare rises fair?

[taxman]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if proper and real competition was involved. Have more train companies running the same lines at the same times. Have some "budget" train services etc

 

But we don't. There is no competition. I don't want to get thanked for traveling "Cross Country", the fact is that was the only service, doing the route I needed, at the time I wanted.

 

A massive fail for privatisation. No choice, just year on year mugging.

[andygardener]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if proper and real competition was involved. Have more train companies running the same lines at the same times. Have some "budget" train services etc

 

But we don't. There is no competition. I don't want to get thanked for traveling "Cross Country", the fact is that was the only service, doing the route I needed, at the time I wanted.

 

A massive fail for privatisation. No choice, just year on year mugging.

 

I must say I've never really understood the benefits of this particular "privatisation". Surely competition is at the heart of private efficiency, and there seems to be none in the rail system as it stands.

[Manlinose]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if proper and real competition was involved. Have more train companies running the same lines at the same times. Have some "budget" train services etc

 

But we don't. There is no competition. I don't want to get thanked for traveling "Cross Country", the fact is that was the only service, doing the route I needed, at the time I wanted.

 

A massive fail for privatisation. No choice, just year on year mugging.

 

the thing that shows there is no competition on the same routes operated by different train companies is that tickets are the same price for a particular journey irrespective of whether i travel with, for example, northern rail or east midlands trains (excluding special offers offered by different companies at different times)

 

if i turn up to a train station and say i want a day return to leeds, they don't ask me who i want to go with, they just sell me a ticket and it'll be the same price whichever train i go on - in most cases the service is equally bad - east midlands promise an at seat trolley service, but it doesn't often materialise

[Vague_Boy]

On Wednesday, train fares will rise, ABOVE INFLATION

 

The official inflation figures are a fantasy so it's no surprise that out here in the real world (beyond Westminster) prices are going up by more than the inflation numbers the government trots out.

 

You can't run a railway system on spin.

 

 

How to measure the real rate of inflation? Look at school fees

 

What is inflation actually running at? Most people will tell you that their personal inflation rate appears to be running way higher than the official CPI numbers, and if you look at the individual prices you pay on a daily basis it does seem unlikely that price inflation in the UK could really be running at under 3%.

 

It is also true that the index the government use sometimes changes (let’s not forget than only a few years ago the RPI was the standard measure of rises in UK prices – no one ever mentioned the CPI) and that the baskets of goods that are used to make up the index change constantly.

 

So what can we look at if we really want to see how much the prices of the things we buy every day are really rising? I wonder if private school fees might be one thing to think about.

 

Now before you all go nuts in the comments section about elitism, I will point out that this idea has nothing to do with who pays for it and how, it is simply to do with what it costs to create a school community. After all, a school needs and uses all the things most communities need and use. It hires staff. It uses energy for heating lighting and transport. It buys food. It buys computer equipment and furniture. It buys sporting equipment and it pays for building maintenance and insurance – just like all other communities.

 

So what is inflation if you look at it this way? It is currently running at 5% and has been almost twice the rate of reported inflation since 2002, according to a report from Lloyds TSB (68% vs 37%). It is also worth noting that in 2002 the average private school fee was equivalent to 27% of average earnings. Now it is 35%. That gives you some measure of just how much real earnings have fallen in the last decade.

LINK (MoneyWeek)

 

So if there is 5% inflation in the real world (and we all know that inflation is higher than quoted), the rail fare are actually going up by less than the real rate of inflation, in other words, a small price cut.

[Annie Bynnol]

the thing that shows there is no competition on the same routes operated by different train companies is that tickets are the same price for a particular journey irrespective of whether i travel with, for example, northern rail or east midlands trains (excluding special offers offered by different companies at different times)

 

if i turn up to a train station and say i want a day return to leeds, they don't ask me who i want to go with, they just sell me a ticket and it'll be the same price whichever train i go on - in most cases the service is equally bad - east midlands promise an at seat trolley service, but it doesn't often materialise

 

 

 

Sheffield to Leeds is not a good example as it depends on which start time, , type of railcard, operator, route, flexibility, comfort and journey time you choose.

Walk up fares for tommorrow include Free, £10.30, £12.60, £13.10, £16.10, £21.80 return second class fares. A problem for counter staff!

 

The main operator is Northern ( via Barnsley or Swinton) with XCountry providing fasts and EastCoast/TransPennine providing a route via Doncaster.

 

You cannot get an East Midlands day return to Leeds- the first EM train to Leeds isn't until after 9 at night.

[Manlinose]

the point i was making is that you don't buy "an east midlands day return", you buy a day return - which train company you go with is determined by the time of day you are travelling, not by preference of one supplier over another

[alchresearch]

Maybe people wouldn't be so unhappy if the upgrades were paid for from the train companies profits, rather than getting the public to fund it, or profits remained constant:

 

Northern Rail puts profits up by 34 per cent

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-news/northern-rail-puts-profits-up-by-34-per-cent-1-4114849

 

 

The train operator’s holding company recorded a pre-tax profit of £40.1m in the year ending January 2011, up from £29.9m the previous period.

[Manlinose]

according to a report on msn using information provided by ATOC (association of train operating companies) 3% of the train fare is profit for the train operating company

 

"The Association of Train Operation Companies provides the following breakdown.

For every pound of income that train companies receive, on average:

- 48p goes to Network Rail (which charges train companies to run trains on the tracks) and other infrastructure costs

- 17p goes on staff costs

- 17p goes on miscellaneous costs (including train maintenance, administration, contractors)

- 11p goes on leasing trains

- 4p goes on fuel/energy

- 3p goes to train company profit

 

In other words, 97% of what we pay goes back into the running and maintenance of our railways."

 

3% net profit doesn't seem overly excessive when put in those terms, does it?

 

isn't that a price worth paying for the massive improvements seen since privatisation?

 

(is there a tongue in cheek smiley?)

[Annie Bynnol]

the point i was making is that you don't buy "an east midlands day return", you buy a day return - which train company you go with is determined by the time of day you are travelling, not by preference of one supplier over another

 

The time of a departure from Sheffield does affect the price you pay. The standard fare will be charged at peak time. To entice people to use off-peak services they charge less- in the same way as any similar business would do.

 

Unless you are well aquainted with this journey you should always ask for advice. The ticket sellers cannot be expected to list all the permutations but if you ask about EMT daytime trains to Leeds with an at seat trolley service they will know you need help- there aren't any. Trains that leave Sheffield do not always arrive in Leeds before a subsequent departure. Faster, with catering and more comfortable trains are provided by XC or TPE/EastCoast trains which only go about evey hour and often more costly-ask its your choice.

[truman]

totally unfair. train ticket prices are meant to follow inflation rates, which means they should go down when we have deflation, but when ever we have, the train companies have refused to decrease their ticket prices.

 

just like everything else in this country, we get shafted no matter what!

 

Genuine question..when was the last time we had deflation?