God Believers. Do you ever question your faith?

[Ryedo40]

As an atheist, you seem to know an awful lot about the bible. More than me that's for sure.

 

You'll find a lot of atheists take time to try and understand religion, its history, and why people believe what they do. Atheists aren't close-minded like some try to make out. Others, although not in my case, have once been Christians themselves and, after a lot of study and careful consideration, dropped their former beliefs. So they understand quite a lot about religion.

 

I'm not a great believer in organised religion - I believe in god I don't really trust the people who work for him.

 

Same here really. But I'm not against all forms of organised religion.

[Shoesme]

I've no doubt that in some places the church is thriving. Overall though, regular church attendance is in decline.

 

 

 

Please explain further Janie. I'd be interested to know what that atheist propaganda is?

 

 

 

I'm sure there is a mixed age group but, as a general rule, the elderly - whether they are dragged out of old peeps homes or not - tend to fill the pews.

 

 

 

Considering the time of year, that's to be expected.

 

I think that is facts.

[tinfoilhat]

You'll find a lot of atheists take time to try and understand religion, its history, and why people believe what they do. Atheists aren't close-minded like some try to make out. Others, although not in my case, have once been Christians themselves and, after a lot of study and careful consideration, dropped their former beliefs. So they understand quite a lot about religion.

 

 

 

Same here really. But I'm not against all forms of organised religion.

 

I'm not really against the fairly bland c of e*,but I find the rise of the happy clappy, overly produced evangelical stuff. Some of the stuff I've read in there worries me a bit.

 

*imho, the best marketing tool the c of e have got bizarrly is tv show rev. It makes the clergy look normal, and considering the about of vicars (and higher) who consulted on the show, there must be a grain of truth in it.

[gnvqsos]

I'm not really against the fairly bland c of e*,but I find the rise of the happy clappy, overly produced evangelical stuff. Some of the stuff I've read in there worries me a bit.

 

*imho, the best marketing tool the c of e have got bizarrly is tv show rev. It makes the clergy look normal, and considering the about of vicars (and higher) who consulted on the show, there must be a grain of truth in it.

 

I felt Dawn French lent the church some gravity,as the Vicar of Dibley.

[barleycorn]

I felt Dawn French lent the church some gravity,as the Vicar of Dibley.

 

Well, she did have plenty to spare.

 

jb

[Marx]

Sorry Ryedo i'm not getting into all that at this time,and anyway i've explained before,those references atheists select from the old testament have no influence on my own faith whatsoever.There isn't a rule in the Christian faith to say you have to believe everything written in the bible.God is not going to condemn anyone for not believing any of it if they so choose,thats my personal feeling.

 

Indeed there isn't. You can pick and choose what to believe. Most religious people I talk to do this. Slavery is difficult to condone in any situation and the god of the OT is a particularly nasty, misogynistic, vengeful and needy. Do you know what god is going to condemn people for? Do you believe in judgment and eternal life or is that another part of the bible that you choose to disregard?

 

 

Lots of people gain great strength from their faith especially at times of suffering,though that isn't to say they may not experience lapses of absence of faith (as clarity may not be apparent to them at the time)nor do we fully comprehend the meaning of why people have to suffer,nor are we all exempt from feeling the same anger as atheists do when we hear about and witness the suffering of others who we know don't deserve it.

 

Perhaps there is no meaning other than what you give to it. I agree, having an external 'agent' who can be held accountable for life events may be reassuring to some. Bad things happen to good people.

 

We can't explain, and we can't prove the existance of God to an atheist,belief is much about feeling that God is present in the world, in every act of goodness in people whether they are believers or not

Very few people think of God as a distant man with a beard,looking down on us from the sky ready to punish us for anything that is dissaproved of,though so many atheists do appear to think thats what we all imagine.

 

It sounds like your personal god is an apect of your spiritiality that you have moulded into something that you are comfortable with. This is what people do. You can disregard the nasty bits of the bible and focus on that which holds meaning and value for you. Any god that we believe in is merely an extension of ourselves.

[tinfoilhat]

I felt Dawn French lent the church some gravity,as the Vicar of Dibley.

 

Really ? All I got was a fat bird who lived in a village full of in breds who liked chocolate.

 

Hypothetical question. Well a few really. Do atheists mix with religious people ? The reason I ask is that recently a friend of mine lost her dad. She was a church goer more a believer in god etc, spiritual I suppose. She was, unsurprisingly devestated, but took a crumb of comfort believing her dad had gone to a better place. I could agree with her.

 

How would atheists get on in similar situation ? Would they ignore the religious friend ? Tell her, never mind, he's not in pain and that should be enough ? Take a good look as you'll never see him again and to think otherwise is foolish ? This paragraph is a bit tongue in cheek, but I'm not what you could say apart from "well, he had a good innings"

[mossdog]

Faith is a mask for people to pretend they are not ignorant, as god provides the excuse to questions they have no idea what the answers are.

 

Faith is based on earth, and hell is where exactly? Does it have a place, a residence, if so where?

 

Heaven was once thought to be up there , somewhere beyond the earth, but humans are investigating the "heavens, and its not quite so simple is it. Galaxies, solar systems, billion of them, all unexplored to date, and just as well, don't want another myth to crash back to earth does one?

 

So the arrogance of ignorance is fed to the rest who just about cope with daily life, and it has to get better, as its difficult to get along for most, the kids playing up, the job not paying enough. Desperate people seek any way to get help one way or another, and faith, even blind faith, like playing the lottery, just might be the winning ticket.

 

Its all rubbish but we love it, the stories, the hope, and faith business is always booming even in a recession, depression, famine, drought. The flock pay to charities, the faiths and pretend to know bits are not creamed off for this and that necessity. Even the holy ones have to eat and drive cars, live in impressive houses, fly first class as its nearer to heaven innit?

 

So for the blind, faith allows one to HOPE, and HOPE costs, rents and tax to pay, as well as wages, and bills. So faith and hope the secure business model of thousands of years, need charity, your charity, and you ungrateful lot had better cough up generously, or god will be displeased. Remember your place, you are low life, worship your faith, it will always fall short, but keep paying for hope, sinners!

Thankfully ,millions world wide do not subscribe to your resume!..........many I suspect, with a much greater itellect than the likes of you or I will ever aspire to!

 

However I respect individual thinking although I might not agree!

 

 

I would also add, that my foot was in your camp for many years!..............read St Paul in the new testament, then tell me how you think it's all rubbish!

[gladwell64]

I felt Dawn French lent the church some gravity,as the Vicar of Dibley.

 

thats a good post.i think father ted brought it down to earth too...the church is taken too seriously

[PaliRichard]

Hypothetical question. Well a few really.

 

Lots to go at in this thread, most of which I'm ignoring because it seems to be the usual superiority battle (on both sides of the fence) between Theists and those who don't like religion.

 

This however, for me is an interesting question.

 

Do atheists mix with religious people?[/Quote]

 

I am (if you ignore the subtleties) an atheist. I am also religious. My two closest friends (beyond my wife) are totally different. One is a practicing Muslim and most definately believes in God.

 

The other is a gay woman and doesn't have any inclination towards religion at all.

 

I would say atheists can, and do easily mix with the religious. both believers (in religion, not necessarily God) and the non religious (a wider reaching view of your question beyond atheism) are made up of people. Their are idiots, nutters, arrogant so and so's, humble, kind and open hearted amongst every group of people.

 

I think like minded people gravitate towards each other. Like minded Christians mix with like minded Christians, like minded atheists with like minded atheists, like minded non religious with like minded religious.

 

The reason I ask is that recently a friend of mine lost her dad. She was a church goer more a believer in god etc, spiritual I suppose. She was, unsurprisingly devestated, but took a crumb of comfort believing her dad had gone to a better place. I could agree with her[/Quote]

 

I lost my Dad on Sunday. My religion doesn't offer comfort of the 'they've gone to a better place' kind. What it does do is trains you to analyse the feelings and nature of those feelings as they are arising. I loved my Dad beyond words but have not suffered due to his passing. The more difficult thing for me has been watching my non religious family going through the pain of loss and trying to refrain from 'preaching' (something I would never normally do) to them during this difficult time. It is exceptionally difficult to hold your tongue when you see so much pain and you believe (and experience) a way beyond suffering. I can't speak for other religions but I believe that in part that is the power that faith gives to all religions.

 

Faith, in Buddhism at least, is not a 'comfort' in the base way most non religious people speak of it - it is a transformative power that genuinely relieves, or even goes beyond suffering.

 

How would atheists get on in similar situation ? Would they ignore the religious friend ? Tell her, never mind, he's not in pain and that should be enough ? Take a good look as you'll never see him again and to think otherwise is foolish ? This paragraph is a bit tongue in cheek, but I'm not what you could say apart from "well, he had a good innings"[/Quote]

 

I don't know because as I say I am atheist and religious. I know that my religious friends have had a far greater understanding of what has happened than my non religious friends - why, I don't know - and it certainly isn't a reflection of the calibre of my non religious friends, they have tried, but they just seem to be lacking in something, an understanding, or a learned (or innate?) ability to grasp death in a much more peaceful way.

 

Just as an aside, and I'm sure those who regularly converse with me will already be aware, when I say religious here I don't mean people who merely identify themselves as religious - I'm talking about earnest, humble people who's faith is genuine and open hearted - not idiots who run around with bombs or stand on street corners trying to convert people while rubbing their hands together while the coffers are being filled.