Shef_Fitness Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Obesity is a medical condition in which excess body fat has accumulated to the extent that it may have an adverse effect on health, leading to reduced life expectancy and/or increased health problems. I can't think of any Rugby Players, Heavyweight Boxers, or people that do Athletic events that fit that description. They are likely over the average weight of other people because of extra muscle mass and bone density which is entirely different to being obese. REMEMBER - it makes no difference, if their BMI is too high, then they are classed as obese What happens when these people retire from their sport? If when at there peak (say aged 25 year old) they are classed as obese, then what happens 20 years down the line at aged 45 when they are likely to be a good few stone heavier You say "well they should train", bear in mind many ex sports people would still blow away your average gym bunny/poser 20 years after their playing days are past. ARe these people to be persecuted by some skinny pen pusher who would be lucky to last 5 minutes if they put themselves against these people in a fitness test? So it means, ex sports person, you are a drain on society and no NHS teatment and skinny person, you can have the NHS treatment because your thin, This is nothing more than keeping bullying jobsworths in work who will be happy to say "well I'm only doing my job", and its all about desperate councils trying to gain extra cash to for their own sport centres. Its puts private gyms at a disadvantage and is unfair all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If they start claiming JSA (which I suspect is unlikely) and they live in Westminster, then they will be given a free gym pass and told to use it. Given that these are high level athletes and sports people they'll probably be delighted to be given free access to a facility they already use several times a week (if not more). I'd be more than happy if SCC gave me a gym pass and demanded that I get my ass down there two or three times a week. But like I said back on page 1, BMI is a very poor measure. If anything is to be used to tell certain people they must go to the gym, it should be a doctors advice possibly, or maybe an intra abdominal measure of fat, or at least a basic fitness test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugger Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If they start claiming JSA (which I suspect is unlikely) and they live in Westminster, then they will be given a free gym pass and told to use it. Given that these are high level athletes and sports people they'll probably be delighted to be given free access to a facility they already use several times a week (if not more). I'd be more than happy if SCC gave me a gym pass and demanded that I get my ass down there two or three times a week. But like I said back on page 1, BMI is a very poor measure. If anything is to be used to tell certain people they must go to the gym, it should be a doctors advice possibly, or maybe an intra abdominal measure of fat, or at least a basic fitness test. At last Common sense is trying to prevail ! Cyclone is trying to talk sense to the masses ! But will he succeed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 But like I said back on page 1, BMI is a very poor measure. If anything is to be used to tell certain people they must go to the gym, it should be a doctors advice possibly, or maybe an intra abdominal measure of fat, or at least a basic fitness test. I think the government/council would get them sent to Atos. Who would then put them on a scale, measure their height and the calculate their BMI. Maybe also a cursory medical checklist and a quick check of pulse and BP then away they go to the gym. There is no reason to believe, based on the primitive processes used on behalf of the government for assessing complex medical conditions, that a JSA gym-readiness assessment would be anything other than the most basic, quickest and cheapest to execute (and most profitable) assessment available. Any gyms forced to take on these customers would probably do well to check their corporate insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What about Sumo wrestlers then? They are fat and fit not fat and lazy, it’s not the amount of fat that matters, it how much you move it around and the proposal in the OP is about moving it around to make fat people fitter, and the likely result of becoming fitter is some weight loss and less health problems. ---------- Post added 08-01-2013 at 07:51 ---------- Some of them are dangerously obese. Have you ever looked at the life expectancy of Sumo wrestlers compared to the general Japanese population? Just looked it up and that’s a good point, but I do suspect because they are fit, their life expectancy is a tad higher than your average obese person. ---------- Post added 08-01-2013 at 07:59 ---------- REMEMBER - it makes no difference, if their BMI is too high, then they are classed as obese What happens when these people retire from their sport? If when at there peak (say aged 25 year old) they are classed as obese, then what happens 20 years down the line at aged 45 when they are likely to be a good few stone heavier You say "well they should train", bear in mind many ex sports people would still blow away your average gym bunny/poser 20 years after their playing days are past. ARe these people to be persecuted by some skinny pen pusher who would be lucky to last 5 minutes if they put themselves against these people in a fitness test? So it means, ex sports person, you are a drain on society and no NHS teatment and skinny person, you can have the NHS treatment because your thin, This is nothing more than keeping bullying jobsworths in work who will be happy to say "well I'm only doing my job", and its all about desperate councils trying to gain extra cash to for their own sport centres. Its puts private gyms at a disadvantage and is unfair all round They are not classed as obese; my doctor doesn't class me as obese despite me being well over the average weight for someone my age and height. But when I stop training I will have to cut my calorie intake or I will gain fat as I lose muscle and bone density, and several years of eating what I eat without the training I do, and I will become obese without actually gaining any weight, when fat replaces my muscle and bone density my doctor will be concerned about my health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffsal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Nobody is naturally obese, do not confuse obese with a bit on the porky side. And equally nobody is saying we must all be the same, nobody is suggesting that everyone should be able to run a 4 minute mile (I wish I could). Or that we should all weigh a certain amount. What they are suggesting is that being obese costs society a lot in medical bills (because people are not naturally obese, they are obese from eating too much and doing too little). And so if they are on benefits and being supported by society, they owe it to society to reduce their burden by loosing some weight. Smokers cost the NHS.a fortune too . . . . Some people continue smoking when diagnosed with COPD and asthma . . . . Perhaps is obese people are made to slim down or face the cobsequences, then smokers shouldnt be treated until they have stopped smoking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 That's already the case isn't it, some treatments will only be given after the patient stops smoking. Not that we're talking about withholding treatement from the obese, we're just talking about requiring exercise from the obese who are claiming JSA. ---------- Post added 08-01-2013 at 08:44 ---------- I think the government/council would get them sent to Atos. Who would then put them on a scale, measure their height and the calculate their BMI. Maybe also a cursory medical checklist and a quick check of pulse and BP then away they go to the gym. There is no reason to believe, based on the primitive processes used on behalf of the government for assessing complex medical conditions, that a JSA gym-readiness assessment would be anything other than the most basic, quickest and cheapest to execute (and most profitable) assessment available. Any gyms forced to take on these customers would probably do well to check their corporate insurance policy. You're probably correct, and it's a bit disappointing, but that doesn't mean that "in theory" this can't be a reasonable policy. ---------- Post added 08-01-2013 at 08:46 ---------- Just looked it up and that’s a good point, but I do suspect because they are fit, their life expectancy is a tad higher than your average obese person True, higher than a sedentary obese person, significantly lower than a slimmer person, even more so than a slimmer athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleadly Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I am 100% sure that it is correct for the majority of cases. There are a few exceptions, medical cases, people unable to do any exercise for some reason, but these form a very small % of the population of obese people. Yes, I'm 100% correct in 50% of the cases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 50% wouldn't be a majority would it. Back to maths 101 for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 BMI: Does the Body Mass Index need fixing? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21229387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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