Able people on benefits should help improve community surroundings..

[maxmaximus]

This amounts to enforced cheap labour whatever terms you may use to justify it.

I fully understand your frustration at seeing people "getting something for nothing" and whatever the answer may be to ease those frustrations this is not it.

Workers have been undermined enough. I'm not referring to the unemployed alone. In all those cases you have suggested there are already people doing those jobs...and if those jobs are vacant then pay the going rate or go to hell is my attitude.

 

 

Are you saying that unemployed people are lazy then?

 

No one would be forced just as no one is forced to take up paid employment; it would be up to each individual to decide, work or go hungry just as it’s always been though out human history.

 

Some unemployed people are lazy and some clearly aren’t, some work hard to find a job and some work hard to increase the amount of money they have by fiddling the system. So the only people that will lose out are the lazy and the people fiddling, and the hard workers will be happy to work.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 14:45 ----------

 

I understand it perfectly. You want to force hard working gardeners to compete with free labour.

 

"I need my garden cleaning. Shall I employ the £10 an hour gardener, or get the free one provided by the state? Choices choices."

 

Are you arguing that the state can do something correct that a free market can't?

 

Don't presume what I know.

 

Secondly, if there are jobs at the moment that aren't being done, then the answer is not forced labour.

 

This demonstrates nicely that you don't understand what I have said, I haven't proposed anyone competes to do jobs that are already being done, the unemployed should be expected to work for the state and not private individuals.

[pottedplant]

No you and I know there are jobs at the moment that arnt been done. Litter picking and cleaning is one such example. Gardening is another. There are lots of areas in this city that look a right tip. Current council workers are stretched as it is to deal with their workload.

Thefore why not get people who have nothing to do something to do? If I were unemployed I'd be happy to do this its something constructive after all.

 

but then whats to stop the bin men being made redundant - and being told to do that work again - but this time for JSA

or the current park staff- and being told to do that work for JSA or maybe the school cleaners, or those working in care homes.

[Bypassblade]

whats the point of a public forum,when comments are made then removed like mine was,it wasnt offensive,or is it a case of face dont fit on here

 

Don't take it personally, we've nearly all had posts removed

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 14:50 ----------

 

If everybody showed community spirit and did those things it would save council money.

 

SR sorry to say but Community Spirit, is a thing of the distant past sadly:mad:

[maxmaximus]

but then whats to stop the bin men being made redundant - and being told to do that work again - but this time for JSA

or the current park staff- and being told to do that work for JSA or maybe the school cleaners, or those working in care homes.

 

No one as proposed getting the unemployed to do work that is already being done.

[Lotusflower]

No one would be forced just as no one is forced to take up paid employment; it would be up to each individual to decide, work or go hungry just as it’s always been though out human history.

 

Some unemployed people are lazy and some clearly aren’t, some work hard to find a job and some work hard to increase the amount of money they have by fiddling the system. So the only people that will lose out are the lazy and the people fiddling, and the hard workers will be happy to work.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 14:45 ----------

 

 

This demonstrates nicely that you don't understand what I have said, I haven't proposed anyone competes to do jobs that are already being done, the unemployed should be expected to work for the state and not private individuals.

 

Re my bold.

 

Happens here too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9737157/MPs-expenses-Maria-Miller-reported-to-MP-watchdog-over-90000-expenses-claims.html

 

The only reason I picked out Maria Miller (A Tory) is because it's the most recently reported. I'm not making a party political point because it's an across the board problem.

The greedy buggers will claim for anything they can and it's mostly "within the rules." Rules that they themselves made.

 

It's much harder to fiddle on the dole and all illegal too.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 16:22 ----------

 

No one as proposed getting the unemployed to do work that is already being done.

 

Mmmm...a moot point methinks. It's just that you won't accept it.

[slugger]

No you and I know there are jobs at the moment that arnt been done. Litter picking and cleaning is one such example. Gardening is another. There are lots of areas in this city that look a right tip. Current council workers are stretched as it is to deal with their workload.

 

Thefore why not get people who have nothing to do something to do? If I were unemployed I'd be happy to do this its something constructive after all.

 

Are the jobs not being done because of government cutbacks and redundancies ?

Current council workers are stretched because their workload is obviously too high !

Its obvious that their is work out there that could give unemployed workers paid work to get them off benefits !

But yet the government insist on council cutbacks and capping of council tax bills, all of which pay for services that employ people and keep them off the dole.

Would any one disagree then that present government policy is causing unnecessary employment ?

I think some posters on are "Brainwashed" by this government ! Especially when they think that some of these so called redundant posts should be done by Doleys for their benefit pittances ! There is much work out there but the government dont want to pay wages for it and will get round eventually to getting it done by what is nothing short of Slave Labour by many who are forced out of paid work through no fault of there own.

Yes there are many places in Sheffield that look a right tip and need something done about it ! And people on here think the answer is Benefit Scroungers, never stopping to think for one minute to think that should be a full time paid job. SHAME SHAME SHAME

[maxmaximus]

Re my bold.

 

Happens here too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9737157/MPs-expenses-Maria-Miller-reported-to-MP-watchdog-over-90000-expenses-claims.html

 

The only reason I picked out Maria Miller (A Tory) is because it's the most recently reported. I'm not making a party political point because it's an across the board problem.

The greedy buggers will claim for anything they can and it's mostly "within the rules." Rules that they themselves made.

 

It's much harder to fiddle on the dole and all illegal too.

 

 

 

Mmmm...a moot point methinks. It's just that you won't accept it.

 

It does but that’s not the subject of the topic and what won't I accept?

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

Are the jobs not being done because of government cutbacks and redundancies ?

 

No, the jobs weren't getting done before this government took office, because councils tend to be run in a wasteful and incompetent way.

[Mister M]

Re my bold.

 

Happens here too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9737157/MPs-expenses-Maria-Miller-reported-to-MP-watchdog-over-90000-expenses-claims.html

 

The only reason I picked out Maria Miller (A Tory) is because it's the most recently reported. I'm not making a party political point because it's an across the board problem.

The greedy buggers will claim for anything they can and it's mostly "within the rules." Rules that they themselves made.

 

It's much harder to fiddle on the dole and all illegal too.

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 16:22 ----------

 

 

Mmmm...a moot point methinks. It's just that you won't accept it.

 

And what is enraging about Ms Miller is that when she was Minister for the Disabled she axed funding for Remploy's factories and put 1,700 people on the dole. Most of the workers have special needs who fear that they will never find work again. But Labour probably would have done the same

 

Many people on benefits already save the Gonernment / taxpayers billions of pounds by being carers for relatives and neighbours. Yes they may be entitled to a Carer's Allowance, some claim it, some don't. But the fact that those who carp on endlessly about 'scroungers', and 'lazy doleys' never mention that many people on benefits already do make a contribution confirms the TUC study mentioned earlier in this thread, that support for a harsher welfare system is dependent on ignorance.

[Lotusflower]

It does but that’s not the subject of the topic and what won't I accept?

 

---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

 

No, the jobs weren't getting done before this government took office, because councils tend to be run in a wasteful and incompetent way.

 

Re my bold.

You won't accept that what you are suggesting is jobs being done by the unemployed that should be done by the employed. If the job is there it should be paid at the going rate and not at a reduced rate.

 

You say jobs were not getting done before this government took office thereby implying that there has been an improvement since they got in when the reverse is the truth. Council spending has been mercilessly slashed under the coalition rendering hundreds more unemployed and on benefits. And there are more redundancies to come in the next round of cuts.

What better way then to lower wages than for the government to demonise those workers who lose their jobs and get them to work for their daily bread at lower than subsistence levels, lower than what they received whilst in work.

Scroungers? Not in my book. The dispossessed more like.

If I were you I would enjoy this lot while you can because I predict it will be generations before the twisted thinking they have brought to bear will ever be voted back into power again.

[maxmaximus]

Re my bold.

You won't accept that what you are suggesting is jobs being done by the unemployed that should be done by the employed. If the job is there it should be paid at the going rate and not at a reduced rate.

 

You say jobs were not getting done before this government took office thereby implying that there has been an improvement since they got in when the reverse is the truth. Council spending has been mercilessly slashed under the coalition rendering hundreds more unemployed and on benefits. And there are more redundancies to come in the next round of cuts.

What better way then to lower wages than for the government to demonise those workers who lose their jobs and get them to work for their daily bread at lower than subsistence levels, lower than what they received whilst in work.

Scroungers? Not in my book. The dispossessed more like.

If I were you I would enjoy this lot while you can because I predict it will be generations before the twisted thinking they have brought to bear will ever be voted back into power again.

 

Who said anything about a reduced rate? And the jobs are still not being done because governments like to give free money out instead of getting people working for it. I said the unemployed should be assessed as they are now and the amount they get should be divided by the minimum wage to work out the hours they are required to work to get it.

 

They wouldn't be any unemployed people because there would be no such think, everyone would be employed all be it in temporary jobs until such time as they find permanent work.