pottedplant Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No one as proposed getting the unemployed to do work that is already being done. You miss the point. There is work to be done - and it should be done by paid workers. Because if the work can be done for "free" what stops all work being undertaken in that way? ie (as per my previous post) the council decide to stop paying anyone to collect rubbish - because those on JSA an do it. They stop paying anyone to garden/ keep parks tidy - because those on JSA can do it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 You miss the point. There is work to be done - and it should be done by paid workers. Because if the work can be done for "free" what stops all work being undertaken in that way? ie (as per my previous post) the council decide to stop paying anyone to collect rubbish - because those on JSA an do it. They stop paying anyone to garden/ keep parks tidy - because those on JSA can do it...... They will be paid for doing the work instead of paid for doing nothing. No one will have to work for free, everyone will be paid for the work they do, they just won't be paid to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Who said anything about a reduced rate? And the jobs are still not being done because governments like to give free money out instead of getting people working for it. I said the unemployed should be assessed as they are now and the amount they get should be divided by the minimum wage to work out the hours they are required to work to get it. They wouldn't be any unemployed people because there would be no such think, everyone would be employed all be it in temporary jobs until such time as they find permanent work. I'd missed that bit. So the unemployed would have to work 10 hours each each -is that the plan? Would they get travel expenses paid too? or would that reduce the number of hours worked down to about 8 ish each? How about clothing allowance? on £70 quid a week many of the unemployed do not have a vast wardrobe of clothes and shoes out of which to buy work boots/ overalls/ warm jackets etc- so lets put £100 aside to fund that? (so another 20 hours worth ish of work credit - so if the plan is that they work for 10 weeks we are know down to 6 hours work each) Is that how it works? ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:21 ---------- They will be paid for doing the work instead of paid for doing nothing. No one will have to work for free, everyone will be paid for the work they do, they just won't be paid to do nothing. I' ve got it now. Communism. We will all just work for the state . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I'd missed that bit. So the unemployed would have to work 10 hours each each -is that the plan? Would they get travel expenses paid too? or would that reduce the number of hours worked down to about 8 ish each? How about clothing allowance? on £70 quid a week many of the unemployed do not have a vast wardrobe of clothes and shoes out of which to buy work boots/ overalls/ warm jackets etc- so lets put £100 aside to fund that? (so another 20 hours worth ish of work credit - so if the plan is that they work for 10 weeks we are know down to 6 hours work each) Is that how it works? ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:21 ---------- I' ve got it now. Communism. We will all just work for the state . Most employed people don't get travel allowance or clothing allowance other than maybe a high visibility vest if they are working outside and the jobs that need doing are within walking distance. ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:30 ---------- I' ve got it now. Communism. We will all just work for the state . No just everyone that can't get a job in the private sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Most employed people don't get travel allowance or clothing allowance other than maybe a high visibility vest if they are working outside and the jobs that need doing are within walking distance. So its freezing outside and your off sending unemployed - without warm clothing or suitable footwear to walk to work picking up litter. Can they at least be given a pair of gloves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 So its freezing outside and your off sending unemployed - without warm clothing or suitable footwear to walk to work picking up litter. Can they at least be given a pair of gloves? They would have the use of whatever safety clothing is required for the task they have been given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Most employed people don't get travel allowance or clothing allowance other than maybe a high visibility vest if they are working outside and the jobs that need doing are within walking distance. Employed people receive a wage, which they have accepted for their labour. The state isn't forcing them into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 They would have the use of whatever safety clothing is required for the task they have been given. So this scheme of yours comes at a cost to the public purse, rather than saving money, and at a financial loss to those who are unemployed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Employed people receive a wage, which they have accepted for their labour. The state isn't forcing them into it. The state wouldn’t force anyone to do anything, it would be completely voluntary, work for money or don't work for no money. ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:42 ---------- So this scheme of yours comes at a cost to the public purse, rather than saving money, and at a financial loss to those who are unemployed? It wouldn't cost anything and there wouldn't be any financial loss to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Who said anything about a reduced rate? And the jobs are still not being done because governments like to give free money out instead of getting people working for it. I said the unemployed should be assessed as they are now and the amount they get should be divided by the minimum wage to work out the hours they are required to work to get it. They wouldn't be any unemployed people because there would be no such think, everyone would be employed all be it in temporary jobs until such time as they find permanent work. Re my bold. You did! Not in as many words but you did say that they would work for what they get now in JSA. The second part I highlighted is a change of tack for you according to what you said in posts 80, 82, 85, 92, 101 and 103. For instance, in post 80...and I quote you, you said, "Why is it a major issue expecting them to do something for the money they now receive?" You went on to say, in the same post 80, "If someone falls on hard times and loses their job the state finds them something to do and pays them enough to survive until they find something better." ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:54 ---------- The state wouldn’t force anyone to do anything, it would be completely voluntary, work for money or don't work for no money. ---------- Post added 05-01-2013 at 18:42 ---------- It wouldn't cost anything and there wouldn't be any financial loss to anyone. In your scheme of things what would happen to anyone not volunteering? Let's say Joe Bloggs is made redundant from his job as a Council cleaner and becomes a JSA claimant. He is then offered his old job back in a volunteer's capacity to make him feel better about not being a scrounger. Has he lost anything financially? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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