Should margarine be banned?

[Cyclone]

Perhaps you can give us your expert opinion on this study,

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf

""WHO also commissioned a study to provide background information for issuing guidelines for desalinated water. That study was conducted by a team of researchers of the A.N. Sysin Institute of General and Public Hygiene and USSR Academy of Medical Sc iences under the direction of Professor Sidorenko and Dr. Rakhmanin. The final report, published in 1980 as an internal working document (3), concluded that “not only does completely de mineralised water (distillate) have unsatisfactory organoleptic properities, but it also has a definite adverse influence on the animal and human organism”. After evaluating the available health, organoleptic, and other information, the team recommended that demineralised water contain 1.) a minimum level for dissolved salts (100 mg/L), bicarbonate ion (30 mg/L), and calcium (30 mg/L); 2.) an optimum level for total dissolved salts (250-500 mg/L for chloride-sulfate water and 250-500 mg/L for bicarbonate water); 3.) a maximum level for alkalinity (6.5 meq/l), sodium (200 mg/L), boron (0.5mg/L), and bromine (0.01 mg/L). Some of these recommendations are discussed in greater detail in this chapter.

 

Do you believe any random bit of rubbish you come across on the internet? Are you completely devoid of rational analytical thinking ability, or even some common sense?

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 07:25 ----------

 

Have you actually tried the butter/margarine blob experiment?

 

I'd give it a go myself, but, due to my extremely low opinion of margarine, there's none in my house

 

I must say though, that I doubt very much that margarine just passes through the system. Certainly, if it's got trans fats in it, they will linger, in the arteries at least, which is why trans fats lead to heart disease.

 

Any other fats in it, even if they aren't some chemically altered mutants like the trans fats, will also likely stick around, probably in the belly area

 

And the fat in butter you think will somehow magically pass through the system?

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 07:27 ----------

 

Some does, some doesn't. Most did, over the past 2 decades, hence why many consumers were killed as a result of eating trans fats in margarine.

Most does not now.

Hence why this topic, from the start, has been filled with FUD, misinformation and nonsense.

 

Now it's been scientifically shown that hundreds of thousands

I'd question your numbers, it's certainly harmful, but so many?

have died as a result of consuming the trans fats that were in margarine (back then, and which still are in some margarines), as well as the trans fats in every other processed food item containing the partially hydrogenated fats, of course, steps are being taken to cut trans fats in margarine and other processed foods in preparation for the inevitable ban.

They were cut a decade ago when we realised it was harmful.

 

Of course, even with the new margarines without toxic trans fats, it's entirely possible that, in another tens years, science may turn up equally dire health problems- just as, it seems, there are serious health issues with many (most?) heavily processed 'foods'.

 

Just as abstaining from eating margarine 2 decades ago would have saved people from the health issues, it's a reasonable course of action to do the same with current margarine, in case it turns out to be harmful like the old stuff was- along abstaining from pretty much all heavily processed 'foods'.

 

Or not, of course- it's entirely down to choice, if people want to eat rubbish, feel rubbish, and, have rubbish health, it's up to them. After all, we live in a society where being obese, not being able to walk properly, being on life-long drugs for avoidable conditions like heart disease, has become pretty much the norm as people hit middle age.

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2014 at 19:27 ----------

 

 

Nothing is completely harmless.

 

Breathing is essential for life, but it's far from completely harmless. Even if the air was clean and unpolluted, oxygen does have negative effects on health, and, of course, air isn't clean and unpolluted.

What negative affects does oxygen have?

[retep]

Do you believe any random bit of rubbish you come across on the internet? Are you completely devoid of rational analytical thinking ability, or even some common sense?

 

 

 

Most does not now.

Hence why this topic, from the start, has been filled with FUD, misinformation and nonsense.

I'd question your numbers, it's certainly harmful, but so many?

They were cut a decade ago when we realised it was harmful.

What negative affects does oxygen have?

 

Not at all that's why I take your posts with a pinch of salt.

[Cyclone]

I can back up everything that isn't a subjective opinion with properly documented and researched science.

And when there is better evidence for an alternative opinion, I'm happy to change my mind.

 

You're the one posting nonsense about water here, and apparently believing it.

[onewheeldave]

 

And the fat in butter you think will somehow magically pass through the system?

 

A strawman? From you? I never claimed that butter passed through harmlessly.

 

Let me be clear, I do not rate butter for health, or indeed any fat/oil (though small amounts of essential fats/oils are vital).

 

The only merits of butter are that it is not deadly, like margarine or any other processed foods containing trans fats/partially hydrogenated fats, and, IMO, it is almost certainly safer than margarines not containing trans fats.

 

However, my advice would be to cut all fats, including butter, to a bare minimum. It is entirely possible to live life and be healthy, without using butter or margarine.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 09:18 ----------

 

D

I'd question your numbers, it's certainly harmful, but so many?

 

Estimates based on studies say range from 20,000-80,000 deaths from trans fats in America- that's per year.

 

Let's say that trans fats were in food for 2 decades, using the lower estimate of 20,000, that's 400,000 deaths in that period in America.

 

Even if we were super-conservative and multipled by only 3 to estimate worldwide fatalites, that would bring it up to 1,200,000 deaths caused by eating processed foods that contained trans fats. That's using the lowest estimates.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 09:29 ----------

 

They were cut a decade ago when we realised it was harmful.

 

'Cut'? To many that would imply they were absent from food. That's not the case- they still appear in UK food to this day, albeit, much reduced, and (hopefully) on their way to zero over the next few years.

 

You say 'we' realised they were harmful- good to know you're part of the team

 

But why weren't the public informed- cos it's only now that this sickening information is squeezing out into the public eye.

 

Then again, the situation is that the medical profession, backed by government and a large scale, long term marketing campaign, convinced, coerced and bullied, the population into switching from butter to margarine loaded (in those days) with transfats.

 

A government/medical profession campaign which lead to hundereds of thousands of deaths (conservative estimate) in those who followed that woefully incorrect advice.

 

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but, given those facts, I'm not that surprised that things seem very quiet indeed on the trans fats front. An apology, a 'hands held up "we got it wrong"' would be appropriate, but is unlikely to be forthcoming.

[Cyclone]

A strawman? From you? I never claimed that butter passed through harmlessly.

It was the inference you made though, since you specifically mentioned that the fat in margarine won't pass through, as if it were somehow different to the fat in butter.

 

Let me be clear, I do not rate butter for health, or indeed any fat/oil (though small amounts of essential fats/oils are vital).

 

The only merits of butter are that it is not deadly, like margarine

This is my problem, you are making unsubstantiated claims about margarine and the effects it has on health.

or any other processed foods containing trans fats/partially hydrogenated fats, and, IMO, it is almost certainly safer than margarines not containing trans fats.

The majority of margarine in the UK DOES NOT contain trans fat. Why do you persist in pretending that it does?

 

However, my advice would be to cut all fats, including butter, to a bare minimum. It is entirely possible to live life and be healthy, without using butter or margarine.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2014 at 09:18 ----------

 

 

Estimates based on studies say range from 20,000-80,000 deaths from trans fats in America- that's per year.

 

Let's say that trans fats were in food for 2 decades, using the lower estimate of 20,000, that's 400,000 deaths in that period in America.

 

Even if we were super-conservative and multipled by only 3 to estimate worldwide fatalites, that would bring it up to 1,200,000 deaths caused by eating processed foods that contained trans fats. That's using the lowest estimates.

Who's estimate? Can you provide a link to this estimate?

 

'Cut'? To many that would imply they were absent from food. That's not the case- they still appear in UK food to this day, albeit, much reduced, and (hopefully) on their way to zero over the next few years.

but not in most margarine. Contrary to what you keep claiming and the basis for this entire discussion.

 

You say 'we' realised they were harmful- good to know you're part of the team [/quote[

We = Society, to which both you and I belong.

 

But why weren't the public informed- cos it's only now that this sickening information is squeezing out into the public eye.

Like hell it is. I learnt about trans-fats during GCSE biology, which would put it circa 1994. Two decades ago.

 

Then again, the situation is that the medical profession, backed by government and a large scale, long term marketing campaign, convinced, coerced and bullied, the population into switching from butter to margarine loaded (in those days) with transfats.

 

A government/medical profession campaign which lead to hundereds of thousands of deaths (conservative estimate) in those who followed that woefully incorrect advice.

The medical profession are not infallible, science is not infallible, mistakes will be made, and as more evidence is gathered they will then be corrected.

 

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but, given those facts, I'm not that surprised that things seem very quiet indeed on the trans fats front. An apology, a 'hands held up "we got it wrong"' would be appropriate, but is unlikely to be forthcoming.

From whom exactly?

[davyboy]

In which case with nothing in it,

 

http://www.watershed.net/media/pdf/purified-water-and-its-dangers.pdf

 

"Water cures, but purified water is a detriment to the health of anyone who consumes it. Purified water is produced by deionization, distillation or reverse osmosis and should not be consumed for three reasons. It acidifies the body, leaches minerals from the body and the large size and shape of its water molecule clusters do not hydrate the body well. In fact, long-term use of purified water can leave us dehydrated.

Purified water should be used in humidifiers, fountains, autoclaves and fish tanks. It is used in many industries, but it should not be consumed.

Purified water has had all the minerals removed from it, which is a substance that cannot be found in nature. When we drink purified water,

we are consuming a pure chemical substance,H2O. Pure chemical substances of any kind are not found in nature collected together, but

instead are always mixed with other substances.Because of its extreme purity, purified water absorbs carbon dioxide from the air, which makes it acidic and even more aggressive at dissolving the alkaline substances it comes in contact with. The pH of purified water is much more acid than the body should be. It contains little or no dissolved oxygen and therefore is

considered dead water unless it is re-oxygenated".

 

TOTAL AND UTTER BS

 

pH of water is 7. i.e. NEUTRAL not acidic or alkaline

[Cyclone]

I just spotted the bit about using it in fish tanks. So it's okay for fish to live in, but harmful if people consume it. What a joke.

[retep]

I just spotted the bit about using it in fish tanks. So it's okay for fish to live in, but harmful if people consume it. What a joke.

 

No you are the joke as you haven't looked up the reasoning.

[Nem88]

Natural chemicals, synthetic chemicals its all chemicals. Like the argument over Organic, it's assumed natural pesticides are safe, by the virtue of being found naturally, none of the containing compounds can be bad, right? Toxins are toxins, whether there naturally or placed. Toxins that have adverse effects on people can be found in all manor of natural produce if you only regularly consume certain foods.

 

I checked my Clover tub last night, seemed fine to me.

[Cyclone]

No you are the joke as you haven't looked up the reasoning.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night dude.

 

There is no "reasoning" behind what you posted though. It complete and utter bovine excrement.