LeMaquis Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Why on earth not, why do you think they wouldn't want to trade with us? we buy more from them that them from us, it is they that would stand to lose the most. I said we couldn't trade with them to a greater extent to replace the trade we'd lose with the EU. You failed to highlight that bit. Geography would dictate that it's harder to trade with other continents thousands of miles away than it is with your neighbours even assuming that the same goods are available for import and wanted for export. If you want a second opinion try the CBI; http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a3beb12-322c-11e2-b891-00144feabdc0.html "...we in the UK must work harder to avoid the risks of isolation”. Europe was the bedrock of Britain’s international trade and the launch pad for expanding its global trade, not “the land mass from which we retreat”. ---------- Post added 14-01-2013 at 13:41 ---------- This is where the argument falls apart. Businesses trade not countries and they trade with who ever is the most cost effective for the product they are buying. This is irrespective of which club you are a member of. But businesses are based in countries whose geography and laws dictate who it is easier to trade with and who it is harder to trade with. See above re CBI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 This is where the argument falls apart. Businesses trade not countries and they trade with who ever is the most cost effective for the product they are buying. This is irrespective of which club you are a member of. Precisely and that leaves no reason for them to discontinue trading with the UK. ---------- Post added 14-01-2013 at 13:45 ---------- I said we couldn't trade with them to a greater extent to replace the trade we'd lose with the EU. You failed to highlight that bit. Geography would dictate that it's harder to trade with other continents thousands of miles away than it is with your neighbours even assuming that the same goods are available for import and wanted for export. We already trade with other continents and there would be no reason from Europe to discontinue trade with the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ahhh, there's that old persecution complex again-don't you see that screaming a statement like that silences the relevant discussion?! Persecution complex? I've no such thing Sir. I genuinely do believe people use that tactic for their own agenda and it doesn't help the debate Frankly it doesn't matter what people 'scream' if what you have to say strikes a chord with others then you've won the argument. If you, me or anyone else here wants to be a 'racist' or 'fascist' you're perfectly entitled to be so and shouldn't be so aggrieved if someone takes and believes you're in one of those categories. It would matter to me, as I would find it offensive to be called racist or fascist. The main grievance I have with people who say their interests lie in anti-immigration rather than outright xenophobia, is that they're usually unable to appreciate the benefits of immigration and then counter those against what they see as the disadvantages-under those circumstances it's perfectly possible to have a dignified, comprehensive discussion about the subject. Absolutely, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 We already trade with other continents and there would be no reason from Europe to discontinue trade with the UK. Discontinue isn't the issue. We'd be trading with the EU on less favourable terms because we wouldn't be part of it and no longer able to influence the decision-making. Trade would be more expensive for us. And we'd lose inward investment from abroad. This would prefer a larger market with a single level playing field. If a referendum were held British business would ovewhelmingly support continued EU membership. The people against would be little Englanders with little economic clout. And Rupert Murdoch. The anti-lobby would get steamrolled as it would have nothing to back itself with other than a misplaced sense of national pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The main grievance I have with people who say their interests lie in anti-immigration rather than outright xenophobia, is that they're usually unable to appreciate the benefits of immigration and then counter those against what they see as the disadvantages-under those circumstances it's perfectly possible to have a dignified, comprehensive discussion about the subject. Or that you are unable or unwilling to see the disadvantage’s of immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Discontinue We'd be trading with the EU on less favourable terms because we wouldn't be part of it and no longer able to influence the decision-making. How's that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Thick as bleedin puddin Glam! So what if some Pakistanis support Pakistan in the cricket? I know of English ex pats in Australia (and their children) who support England in the rugby, I know of Jamaican servicemen (who'd happily die for Britain) who still bang two tins of Red Stripe together and cheer on the Windies in the cricket. It's the lamest example of being unpatriotic that you quote..not mates with Norman Tebbit are you? Tell me, do you believe you can be non-white and British? that was the point BF but it seems to have gone way over your head ,people can be patriotic without being racist. Can you be non white and British ? of course you can thats a stupid question,non white and English thats entirely different. Yet again I reiterate, my problem is with the question of immigration and where and when will the obvious problems be acted upon,the immigrants are not at fault its the government and people like LeMaquis/Quisling who cant see the wood for the trees ,they are that intent on,for some strange reason,labelling people as racist or fascist and concentrating on that paranoia that they refuse to believe what virtually any sane intelligent adult must surely know,there is a problem with immigration in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Or that you are unable or unwilling to see the disadvantage’s of immigration. I've often highlighted them here in the context of the discussion we're having. ---------- Post added 14-01-2013 at 14:54 ---------- that was the point BF but it seems to have gone way over your head ,people can be patriotic without being racist. I was really referring to you deriding Pakistanis for supporting Pakistan in the cricket, I wasn't claiming you were a racist. Can you be non white and British ? of course you can thats a stupid question,non white and English thats entirely different. Well I've bad news for you, if asked of my nationality I state I'm in English..because I was born in England. Yet again I reiterate, my problem is with the question of immigration and where and when will the obvious problems be acted upon, I thought they were being addressed, the adoption of the Australian-esque points system makes it much harder for foreigners to come here and other changes that have been made in immigration policy in recent years. the immigrants are not at fault its the government and people like LeMaquis/Quisling who cant see the wood for the trees ,they are that intent on,for some strange reason,labelling people as racist or fascist and concentrating on that paranoia that they refuse to believe what virtually any sane intelligent adult must surely know,there is a problem with immigration in this country. There are of course problems inherent with immigration, personally I believe it should be strictly controlled. I also believe there should be immigration on humanitarian grounds for genuine refugees, I'd rather my tax went to support them than the (feckless and indolent) British people who need a cattle prod to elevate themselves from Jeremy Kyle every morning...they create much bigger problems than immigrants ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Precisely and that leaves no reason for them to discontinue trading with the UK. ---------- Post added 14-01-2013 at 13:45 ---------- We already trade with other continents and there would be no reason from Europe to discontinue trade with the UK. Not unless there is some exclusive trade agreements with the said nation, but that doesn't mean the UK cannot negotiate its own trade agreements. If we are competitive in price and supply, we will not be left out in the cold by other nations as they will want our goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Discontinue isn't the issue. We'd be trading with the EU on less favourable terms because we wouldn't be part of it and no longer able to influence the decision-making. Trade would be more expensive for us. And we'd lose inward investment from abroad. This would prefer a larger market with a single level playing field. That's what the pro EU group have been led to believe, but it isn't the case, we are the world’s sixth largest economy and with that come some influence, we will do just fine without membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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