It looks like the BNP are right after all

[Tony]

Come on Roy, you've played this very same game before. You always revert to type and play dumb and a bit stupid when you adopt a new username, but there are a lot of long memories around here.

 

Heidrich41.

 

It's enough for me to know that you know that we all know. Take care.

[esme]

Mod Note

 

Posts removed for attacking other users, xenophobia and quoting deleted posts.

 

Try to keep it civil please

[maxmaximus]

No I'm not harping back to the past, over 30% of NHS staff are foreigners (not including the offspring of immigrants who work in it), about 20% of the UK population is foreign and largely of working age (that's the nature of immigrants), so if the the foreigners (and their offspring) in the NHS leave who will provide the care for the indigenous patients coming from an ever increasing ageing population?

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but immigrants don't stay young and healthy; they have kids and get old like the rest of us. I can’t talk for every hospital but people of foreign descent appear to make up a disproportionally high percentage of the patients in Rotherham hospital whilst the staffs appear to be of British descent.

But again it’s not relevant because we are talking about immigration today not the past and their offspring.

 

It would be interesting to see the figures for the ethnic makeup of NHS staff that you appear to have access too.

 

 

This is an interesting read and it does appear to have been more about exploiting cheap labour rather than not having enough British born people to work in the NHS.

Over the next two decades, the British colonies and former colonies provided a constant supply of cheap labour to meet staffing shortages in the NHS.

[boyfriday]

this country could train its own just like before and then we could stop the practice of stealing the professionals from the third world.

 

This is getting boring now, the fanciful thinking of the far right just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

 

You say 'we could train our own'? There are a few significant obstacles in the way of that:

 

i) Finding individuals in our schools & colleges who would prefer a career in medicine over and above one in banking, fashion, PR or just dossing about.

 

ii) Finding individuals with the raw talent required to even access the relevant course in the first place. Remember applicants for medicine/dentistry require 3 A's at A Level at least and those A's have to come from rigorous subjects-Maths, Phys, Chem.

 

iii) Investing in the infrastructure required to create many thousands of home grown nurses, midwives, doctors and dentists. That would be lecture staff, ancillary staff, buildings, technology. As we know the electorate has a problem with investing in the NHS through increased taxation.

 

iv) Waiting many years for those individuals to pass through the system. It can take up to 20 years post qualification for a doctor to acquire consultant status, so that would be 25 years from now-a lot of people would die in the meantime.

[retep]

http://www.medical-student.co.uk/blog/rubbing-salt-in-the-wound

 

The last two years have been painful for National Health Service workers. Committed to saving £20 billion from the health budget, more than 50,000 jobs will need to be axed by 2015. A combination of forced redundancies and abolition of vacated positions during natural turnover will leave great numbers of unemployed personnel.

 

Despite these cuts, hospitals still need to appoint new staff. A recent investigation by The Sunday Telegraph exposed a scandalous situation whereby hospitals are employing managers to recruit from other countries notwithstanding that, in this country, numerous unemployed health workers are in need of jobs. Eleven trusts have sent teams abroad to fill positions. Barking, Havering and Redbridge University Hospitals Trust, unbelievably sent managers to Dublin to recruit nurses when two months later it would make 100 redundancies. It is ludicrous that hospitals would increase competition for jobs in the NHS by unnecessarily deepening the pool of applicants.

[boyfriday]

Sorry to burst your bubble but immigrants don't stay young and healthy; they have kids and get old like the rest of us.

Of course they do, but if you look at the age demographic of immigrants it's much lower than that of the indigenous population, it stands to reason because immigrants coming to the UK now are doing so to work, so have to be of working age. What you also forget is that many immigrants come here then retire to their native countries. The vast majority of the Jamaican members of my own family did just that.

I can’t talk for every hospital but people of foreign descent appear to make up a disproportionally high percentage of the patients in Rotherham hospital whilst the staffs appear to be of British descent.

I think you're guilty of seeing what you want to see and having a subconscious blind eye to that you don't.

But again it’s not relevant because we are talking about immigration today not the past and their offspring.

Which takes me back to my point about the age profile of immigrants coming into this country today.

It would be interesting to see the figures for the ethnic makeup of NHS staff that you appear to have access too.

Well here's an old article from the Independent, that says half of doctors registering in the UK are of foreign descent.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/most-new-nhs-doctors-are-foreign-1180498.html

 

This article also should interest you, the forecast is for the NHS to LOSE doctors who go to work abroad for various reasons.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 10:47 ----------

 

http://www.medical-student.co.uk/blog/rubbing-salt-in-the-wound

 

The last two years have been painful for National Health Service workers. Committed to saving £20 billion from the health budget, more than 50,000 jobs will need to be axed by 2015. A combination of forced redundancies and abolition of vacated positions during natural turnover will leave great numbers of unemployed personnel.

 

Despite these cuts, hospitals still need to appoint new staff. A recent investigation by The Sunday Telegraph exposed a scandalous situation whereby hospitals are employing managers to recruit from other countries notwithstanding that, in this country, numerous unemployed health workers are in need of jobs. Eleven trusts have sent teams abroad to fill positions. Barking, Havering and Redbridge University Hospitals Trust, unbelievably sent managers to Dublin to recruit nurses when two months later it would make 100 redundancies. It is ludicrous that hospitals would increase competition for jobs in the NHS by unnecessarily deepening the pool of applicants.

 

Do you know why this happens? Because people are understandably reluctant to move to where the jobs are, so wait for vacancies to arise in their home towns. Immigrant labour tends to go where the work is and is easier to manage and can be disposed of when contracts terminate.

[retep]

Of course they do, but if you look at the age demographic of immigrants it's much lower than that of the indigenous population, it stands to reason because immigrants coming to the UK now are doing so to work, so have to be of working age. What you also forget is that many immigrants come here then retire to their native countries. The vast majority of the Jamaican members of my own family did just that.

I think you're guilty of seeing what you want to see and having a subconscious blind eye to that you don't.

Which takes me back to my point about the age profile of immigrants coming into this country today.

Well here's an old article from the Independent, that says half of doctors registering in the UK are of foreign descent.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/most-new-nhs-doctors-are-foreign-1180498.html

 

This article also should interest you, the forecast is for the NHS to LOSE doctors who go to work abroad for various reasons.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9573813/NHS-facing-massive-loss-of-doctors-overseas.html

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 10:47 ----------

 

 

Do you know why this happens? Because people are understandably reluctant to move to where the jobs are, so wait for vacancies to arise in their home towns. Immigrant labour tends to go where the work is and is easier to manage and can be disposed of when contracts terminate.

 

Thought you'd find an excuse.

[boyfriday]

I don't dispute that. NHS may have a large portion of foreign workers, but the foreign workers employed by the NHS are only a small % of all foreign workers, so I don't see how we can use the NHS as an excuse to sustain high levels of immigration. I'm not against immigration, we need certain workers, I just don't like the level it's at.

 

I wasn't using it as an excuse I was quoting it as an example, there are many others particularly in technology, education and banking but these are less visible to Joe Public.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 10:50 ----------

 

Thought you'd find an excuse.

 

Would you like to offer your own? I'm all ears.

[retep]

 

Would you like to offer your own? I'm all ears.

 

Cheap poor quality foreign workers are abundant?

[boyfriday]

Cheap poor quality foreign workers are abundant?

 

Wages within the NHS are standardised and at least at the level of the minimum wage.

 

Obviously doctors and dentists can earn in excess of £100k pa plus their final salary pension scheme, so that slightly debunks your argument.