Should Northern Ireland remain part of UK?

[melthebell]

if the loyalists love us so much why dont THEY move over here and then ireland can become its own nation

 

everybodys happy

 

apart from us

 

hmmmmmmmm

[Harleyman]

I don't think that the loyalists have ever claimed to be true Irish.

 

Usurpers and oppressors.... yes

[I1L2T3]

Wales do the same with Plaid Cymru and Scotland with the SNP.

 

Not the same though is it. PC and the SNP and nationalist parties that seek greater freedom. SDLP and Sinn Fein are similar parties in NI in some ways.

 

Unionist parties seek the opposite - they campaign to maintain partition of Ireland.

 

Incidentally UKIP are active in Northern Ireland

[SevenRivers]

Not the same though is it. PC and the SNP and nationalist parties that seek greater freedom. SDLP and Sinn Fein are similar parties in NI in some ways.

 

Unionist parties seek the opposite - they campaign to maintain partition of Ireland.

 

Incidentally UKIP are active in Northern Ireland

 

One of the forummers found it "perverse" that people in NI vote for parties not active in the rest of the UK, which is what I replied to. Plaid Cymru, SNP and English Democrats et al are not active in the rest of the UK, so in that particular sense, yes they are the same.

 

Actually you might compare the Unionists to Labour and the Conservatives who both want Scotland to remain in the UK, since Unionists want NI to stay in the UK too.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Do you really get a choice?

Yes. There was a Plebiscite in- I think- 1921.

Oddly, "Ulster" does not mean "Northern Ireland": of Ulster's eight counties, two voted to join Eire.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2013 at 17:16 ----------

 

I mean its 2013 and they're still scrapping over silly religious divisions and other pointless events in history, so maybe it's now time the UK becomes GB (Ie just Eng, Scot & Wales) cuts all ties with NI, give'em a big cheque and let them govern and sort themselves out?

Better: maybe it's time for Eire to rejoin the UK, having made such a hash of its own finances.

[LeMaquis]

One of the forummers found it "perverse" that people in NI vote for parties not active in the rest of the UK, which is what I replied to. Plaid Cymru, SNP and English Democrats et al are not active in the rest of the UK, so in that particular sense, yes they are the same.

 

That was me. I find it perverse that Loyalists who claim to be British have their own parties that don't organise in Britain. They could organise branches of the Conservative Party, officially the Conservative and Unionist Party. Plaid Cymru, the SNP and English Democrats don't organise outside their own countries or at least PC and SNP don't as they want independence from the UK. The EDP have recently got involved with a Scottish Unionist, as well as a lot of ex-BNP, whose main interest, apart from self-enrichment, is Irish Unionism. They're obviously desparate.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2013 at 17:33 ----------

 

Yes. There was a Plebiscite in- I think- 1921.

Oddly, "Ulster" does not mean "Northern Ireland": of Ulster's eight counties, two voted to join Eire.

 

Ulster has nine counties, three of which are in Eire. Partition was done not by plebiscite but by the Irish nationalists doing a deal with the British government to allow six Ulster counties to remain in the UK in order to avoid civil war in Ulster. The Government of Ireland Act 1920 was followed by partition in 1921. Only four of the nine Ulster counties voted for a majority of Unionist MPs in the 1918 general election.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Ulster has nine counties, three of which are in Eire. Partition was done not by plebiscite but by the Irish nationalists doing a deal with the British government to allow six Ulster counties to remain in the UK in order to avoid civil war in Ulster. The Government of Ireland Act 1920 was followed by partition in 1921. Only four of the nine Ulster counties voted for a majority of Unionist MPs in the 1918 general election.

I stand corrected. Thank you!

[For more, see http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/n/Northern_Ireland.htm re the Partition period spanning 1920-1925]

[SevenRivers]

Ulster has nine counties, three of which are in Eire. Partition was done not by plebiscite but by the Irish nationalists doing a deal with the British government to allow six Ulster counties to remain in the UK in order to avoid civil war in Ulster. The Government of Ireland Act 1920 was followed by partition in 1921. Only four of the nine Ulster counties voted for a majority of Unionist MPs in the 1918 general election.

 

Sorry to correct you, but the whole island of Ireland was given over to the Republic (then known as the Irish Free State) when they gained independence. The North, not wanting to be part of the new republic, then opted to join the UK.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Free_State

 

On the day the Irish Free State was established, it comprised the entire island of Ireland, but Northern Ireland almost immediately exercised its right under the treaty to remove itself from the new state.

[mjw47]

in 1918 there was an all ireland election fought on the issue of home rule,not a full republic but more or less what scotland have now. Sinn Fein won an overwhelming majority of 75 seats out of 101. the british government refused to implement the result of this election & handed the IRB [the forerunners of the IRA ] a mandate to wage war. Following the war of independance the unionists demanded their own territory threatening violence if they didnt get their way [no change there then!]. out of ulsters nine counties, six, containing a majority of unionists were retained in the uk. a boundary commission ensured that the area was gerrymandered in order to ensure an ongoing majority. since then & up to the anglo irish agreement the unionists took full advantage of the situation by discriminating in jobs,education,housing & anything else they could get away with. when any objection was raised they were quick to cry 'majority rule'. now the tables have turned they are throwing their dummys out of the pram. the current outbreak of violence is down to the fact that belfast council have voted to fly the union flag on exactly the same number of days as the rest of the uk instead of every day of the week as it used to. you would have thought that that would make them feel more british but apparently their type of britishness is somewhat different to what we are used to over here [in britain!]. in 2020 providing things continue on as they are the nationalist people will be in the majority as they already are in four of the six counties. what happens then is anyones guess but unfortunatley i dont envisage a peacefull conclusion. this is one where i would love to be wrong.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

But Belfast Council is now controlled by non-Unionist parties: hence the removal of extra 'flag days'.