LeMaquis Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I'd argue that China isn't communist, for the very reasons that you give. Nothing is communal anymore. Wealth and capital have become routes to power, just this time within a one-party state. China isn't communist? Try telling the Chinese Communist Party that. Chinese communism doesn't have to be the same as any other form of communism. Over half of Chinese workers are still employed by large state-owned enterprises. The state is still massively involved in economic planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 You are completely wrong. If you don't know the answer to a question please don't answer it. Two of the most famous fascist regimes in history have been allied to the Vatican City, the Nazi's and the Italians under Mussolini. Also, what about Idi Amin?? He was a fascist and he loved black people (he was one). Moreover, I would find it very hard to be persuaded that Israel isn't a fascist state and it loves Jews Also, Communism and religion do not mix well. Communism is an atheist movement and communist states such as Soviet Russia, China and Cuba have made it a clear and stated intention to wipe out religion. It is fine that you favour communism over fascism but don't stoop to playing the race card in the absence of any knowledge to support your views. As opposed to Nazi religious tolerance you mean? :hihi: The Nazi concentration camps were full of Catholics as well as members of other Christian denominations. Hitler only tolerated Christianity so long as it interferred in no way with his political and racial beliefs. The Vatican's lack of opposition to Hitler's treatment of the Jews and minorities is still a subject of debate to this day. My original post only pointed out one basic difference between the two ideaologies. Fascism which is embedded in the belief of blood ties to the soil, nation, purity of race, culture and history often mixed with mythology (As in the case of Nazism) as opposed to Communism which identified itself with the worldwide struggle of the proletariat against capitalism irregardless of race, religion or nation. You will notice that I mentioned Commuisim in the past tense since it's long gone from Russia where people are now free to worship and in China well on it's way out already. Dont jump to conclusions either. I dont favour one idealogy over the other. I never had any time for either of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It's quiet revolution/evolution will lead to the answer to what I believe to be a fascinating question, are democracy and capitalism intrinsically linked? That's another question but you would have to bear in mind capitalist dictatorships like Singapore and Chile under Pinochet as well as grey areas like Russia today. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 18:41 ---------- You will notice that I mentioned Commuisim in the past tense since it's long gone from Russia where people are now free to worship and in China well on it's way out already. North Korea , Cuba, Laos and Vietnam are still ticking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 China isn't communist? Try telling the Chinese Communist Party that. I will. They're running on capital bouncing around their system. They buy and sell private property, from the west and to the west, to make profit. They're capitalist. Chinese communism doesn't have to be the same as any other form of communism. It has to at least have some common theme between it. Over half of Chinese workers are still employed by large state-owned enterprises. The state is still massively involved in economic planning. Certainly. Western Europe had, and still has, nationalised industry, but we aren't communist. ------------------- The Nazi concentration camps were full of Catholics as well as members of other Christian denominations. No they weren't, and certainly not for the reason that they were Catholic. The Slavic people (Poles, Ukraine) suffered under Hitler, but that was racial. It wasn't their religion he was persecuting. Hitler only tolerated Christianity so long as it interferred in no way with his political and racial beliefs. No he didn't. He openly spoke about Christianity, and the antisemitism of Europe is built on Christian teaching. The Catholic Church didn't forgive the Jews for the crime of deicide until the 1960s. Your history is normally better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 That's another question but you would have to bear in mind capitalist dictatorships like Singapore and Chile under Pinochet as well as grey areas like Russia today. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 18:41 ---------- North Korea , Cuba, Laos and Vietnam are still ticking over. When Castro goes Cuba will undergo a profound change very quickly. Laos and Vietnam may have communsits governments but their societies like China's are moving rapidly towards economies based on capitalistic enterprise. The old leaders wont be around that much longer and as they fade away the younger ones replacing them will only accelerate the changes ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 19:34 ---------- "Russia an atheist state" ? I don't think they ever managed to acchieve that did they! Didnt Putin have a female rock group arrested for busting into a church during a service and singing songs about religion which were not respectful. Looks like the wheel has come full turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 "Russia an atheist state" ? I don't think they ever managed to acchieve that did they! Not through lack of trying though. tens of thousands of priests and church-goers were imprisoned/tortured/executed during the states attempt to eliminate the Orthodix church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 SO from looking at that it seems that both place a lot of emphasis on state control, with the main difference being that Fascists believe in superior races. Facists use the state to oppress people,demanding that all needs are subordinate to the state.Communists ,though not Stalinists, use the state to provide for peoples needs,making the state the servant of the people,the direct opposite of fascism. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 20:11 ---------- China isn't communist? Try telling the Chinese Communist Party that. Chinese communism doesn't have to be the same as any other form of communism. Over half of Chinese workers are still employed by large state-owned enterprises. The state is still massively involved in economic planning. If it were communist then the concept of private property would not hold,but China has promoted private enterprise,despite retaining an autocratic power structure.It is in fact a mixed economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 What's the difference between Communism and Fascism? Ask the families of the people killed in the second world war in the name of both..the answer...nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepsendlane Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Why does mankind find it impossible to share and share alike. Why is it that every time a socialist state is formed the physically strong take over and then amass great wealth for themselves . [Perhaps the law of the jungle at work] Cuba could have been the exception to this if only they had been allowed to exist without interference from America. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 20:27 ---------- What's the difference between Communism and Fascism? Ask the families of the people killed in the second world war in the name of both..the answer...nothing The 2cd World war did not start as war against communism it started due to the greed of a fascist Country thinking that they could do as they pleased and attack their neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Why does mankind find it impossible to share and share alike. Why is it that every time a socialist state is formed the physically strong take over and then amass great wealth for themselves . [Perhaps the law of the jungle at work] Cuba could have been the exception to this if only they had been allowed to exist without interference from America. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 20:27 ---------- The 2cd World war did not start as war against communism it started due to the greed of a fascist Country thinking that they could do as they pleased and attack their neighbours. I think the roots of that war began when the treaty of Versailles sought to humiliate Germany-this sense of hurt pride made the German people amenable to Hitlers rhetoric.WW2 was never a war against communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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