janie48 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The Italian Fascist Party had Jewish members, because Italy wasn't strongly antisemitic until Hitler forced the issue. How did Jewish Vatican staff fare when that happened? The Pope renounced collecting them up and sending them off, did he? I'll give you the answer - no. No, he didn't. Which Jewish leaders? . Prominent Chief Rabbis who send messages of thanks to the Pope just after the war, for authorising the hiding of jews in convents and monastaries,but you don't have to believe that.If you prefer to believe that Catholics are taught to be anti-semetic then you are not alone in that false assumption.If all Jewish people shared that view then i'm sure there there would be much widespread condemnation towards Catholics in general,and i know there isn't,in fact i happen to believe that there is less prejudice from them towards Catholics then there is from some members of other Christian faiths. My own paternal grandparents were practicing Irish Catholics who were very dear to me,though long since gone,i'm quite sure if they had been taught to hate Jews or any other race or religion i would have known about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 WWI was a political defeat defeat for the Germans and as such the country didn't feel defeated. As nonsensical sentences go that's up there with the best. My own paternal grandparents were practicing Irish Catholics who were very dear to me,though long since gone,i'm quite sure if they had been taught to hate Jews or any other race or religion i would have known about it. Two Irish Catholics are hardly representative of the Vatican. For that have a look at the history of Pope Pius XII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Two Irish Catholics are hardly representative of the Vatican. For that have a look at the history of Pope Pius XII. Yes i can guess what your view is on Catholicism, i've seen some of your posts to give me some idea of that. Generally Catholics are not representative of the Vatican,so what point are you making? And actually Catholics are representative of people who are probably the most diverse cross section of people in any one religion. Which historical reading of Pope Pius do you recommend, from a Left wing atheist perspective, Communist or Catholic etc? No doubt there will be contradictive references between them all so i don't think i'll bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Why does mankind find it impossible to share and share alike. Why is it that every time a socialist state is formed the physically strong take over and then amass great wealth for themselves . [Perhaps the law of the jungle at work] Cuba could have been the exception to this if only they had been allowed to exist without interference from America. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 20:27 ---------- The 2cd World war did not start as war against communism it started due to the greed of a fascist Country thinking that they could do as they pleased and attack their neighbours. Appeasement trying to use Germany as a buffer against communism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanic99 Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 There's some interesting information on this thread and I thank those who have contributed. Does anyone know what the respective ideologies views are towards some of the key day-to-day issues. For example, Health Service (I seem to think Cubas is excellent), employment (I seem to recall Nazi Germany reduced unemployment considerably), Education, Housing, Small business etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Every country is the world is capitalist. Don't confuse monetry systems with political systems. I think North Korea would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's quiet revolution/evolution will lead to the answer to what I believe to be a fascinating question, are democracy and capitalism intrinsically linked? I think this question has already been answered if you really look at the current politico-economic situation. Capitalism relies upon 3% compound growth to exist 'healthily', but it has recently begun to hit its limits both geographically (with the opening up of the USSR and China to the global market) and productively (with the difficulties of obtaining some key diminishing raw material resources) so now Europe and North America are undergoing a 'Structural Adjustment Program' known commonly as 'austerity' in order to allow the market to take over the profitable functions of the state through privatisation and to dismantle the welfare state. These are the basic tenets of Thatcherist/ Reaganist neoliberalism- this was when the revolution began and it's still quietly going on today, supported by all of the main political parties. It's supported by the parties because if they were to get into power and not support this capitalist revolution they would be ousted and replaced by technocrats, as happened in Italy- that's our form of democracy. Since the demise of US hegemony in the late 80's we've had a growing global financial power elite that now dictate to western state politicians (or is comprised in part by them) how they will run their countries whilst our national democracy gradually becomes more localised and meaningless- such as the elected police commissioners fiasco- it's all an illusion to make us feel that a vote counts for something, that we're still democratic. Capitalism is no longer primarily about production it's about devising 'fictitious capital' in such a clever way that those participating in the market don't realise that the bonds they hold are complete rubbish (ie 'money that is thrown into circulation as capital without any material basis in commodities or productive activity') until the markets crash. Vast amounts of money can now be made from money and simply sucked out of the economy so capitalists no longer care about production, even if people formed Unions and went on constant strike it wouldn't bother most of the financial elite anymore. So workers can't revolt to fight back at this and they can't vote it away, unless somebody very smart sees another way we simply have to wait for this fraud we call Capitalism to end, as it inevitably must, and hope that we're not too shattered as a society to pick up the pieces and begin something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Why does mankind find it impossible to share and share alike. Why is it that every time a socialist state is formed the physically strong take over and then amass great wealth for themselves . [Perhaps the law of the jungle at work] Cuba could have been the exception to this if only they had been allowed to exist without interference from America. ---------- Post added 20-01-2013 at 20:27 ---------- The 2cd World war did not start as war against communism it started due to the greed of a fascist Country thinking that they could do as they pleased and attack their neighbours. If only it had been that simple...anyway however the war started millions lost their lives in the name of communism and fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Prominent Chief Rabbis who send messages of thanks to the Pope just after the war, for authorising the hiding of jews in convents and monastaries,but you don't have to believe that. I'm not disputing it. Just asking who these people are. You made the statement, so you must know. If you prefer to believe that Catholics are taught to be anti-semetic then you are not alone in that false assumption. They were, and a lot of Catholic teaching was built on them being 'Christ Killers'. Don't blame me because I know their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm not disputing it. Just asking who these people are. You made the statement, so you must know. They were, and a lot of Catholic teaching was built on them being 'Christ Killers'. Don't blame me because I know their history. I have heard about it,and have seen past tv documentary interviews with many ordinary Jews whose lives were saved, but am am unable to recall any names of the Rabbis. Which part of history are you referring to,from the beginning of its history or through all its history up to the present? I hardly think that many Catholics would hate Jews,when he was Jewish himself and attended the synagogue,what kind of logic would that be,especially when the early apostles were Jews also. If the church taught Catholics to hate Jews why would they have chosen to include the books of the history of Jews in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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