Mecky Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 As you seem all for fairness then here's a genuine question Mecky..how many of each party went to jail? As I see it 6 Labour politicians and 2 Tory ones...is that correct? Not sure on the count, but does it matter? I suspect there's a lot more digging to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Tax fraud really isn't the same. Keeping more of your own money is different to defrauding other people of their money. MacShane should have got 20 years. MPs should be held to the highest possible standards, they need to be whiter than white. You think defrauding the exchequer of hundreds of thousands of pounds by VAT fraud or tobacco smuggling or tax credit scams is "keeping more of your own money"? See, that is why certain sections of society get away with evasion and avoidance and fraud, because people like you pretend that it is OK to not pay your taxes. You seem to think that taxation is legalised theft and therefore anyone who doesn't pay it is some sort of Robin Hood figure. Incorrect. When you don't pay your taxes hospitals close, soldiers get shot through lack of armour and the precious immigration controls that you so love are cut back. Do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 How about the loss of his job, status and future employment prospects? Two days in prison for people like MacShane is an awful prospect. good he deserves it ---------- Post added 23-12-2013 at 22:46 ---------- what about the historical claim for about £90,000 for his ramshackle garage , for gas , electric and a television of which the garage had none . maybe the judge realised this man was serial fraudster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Although I'm no fan of Labour MPs' values or what they did to this country over the years they were in government, I do feel he was treated harshly. I've only listened to the BBC reports on this (not known for anything other than left wing bias), but he made no financial gain from this, he was only claiming for things that he was "owed" for expenses incurred. He was inept at book keeping and accounting (bit like the labour party's time in power). He was made an example of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeMac Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Although I'm no fan of Labour MPs' values or what they did to this country over the years they were in government, I do feel he was treated harshly. I've only listened to the BBC reports on this (not known for anything other than left wing bias), but he made no financial gain from this, he was only claiming for things that he was "owed" for expenses incurred. He was inept at book keeping and accounting (bit like the labour party's time in power). He was made an example of. Quite correctly in my opinion. And I'm from the other side of the political spectrum from you, you Tory git:) He's got standards to uphold. He gets a big salary and enough expenses to pay someone to be competent with his accounting. No sympathy from me. Any MP making fraudulent claims, taking cash for questions, or any similar caper, should go to prison in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 It would appear not. I know that's not what you want to hear but it is a fact. Under the rules set up by Michael Martin the Labour Speaker of the Commons. Afterwards all MPs from all parties were investigated. Many had made claims that appear quite inappropriate but were allowed at the time and some were even passed by the speakers committee. That isn't the same as deliberate fraud. Charges were brought against all members who were found to have committed fraud. If you think there are those who made fraudulent claims you are free to name them here. I'll set you off. Here are the ones I am happy to name as criminals. Elliot Morley Former environment minister and Labour MP for Scunthorpe Offence – Pleaded guilty to fraudulently claiming £32,000 of parliamentary expenses. Details – Between April 2004 and February 2006, Morley submitted 19 claims for excessive mortgage payments to which he was not entitled. Between April 2004 and February 2006 he submitted 21 second home allowance forms for a mortgage he had already paid off. Sentence – Jailed for 16 months in May 2011. Released – September 2011 after serving a quarter of his term. David Chaytor Former Labour MP for Bury North Offence – Pleaded guilty to three counts of false accounting relating to approximately £18,000 of parliamentary expenses. Details – Submitted claims for the rent of a flat in Westminster which he had bought in 1999 and had paid off the mortgage for in 2003. Sentence – Jailed for 18 months in January 2011. Released – May 2011 after serving almost a third of his sentence. Eric Illsley Former Labour MP for Barnsley Central Offence – Pleaded guilty to fraudulently claiming £14,000 in parliamentary expenses. Details – Made false claims for his second home between 2005 and 2008 and also over claimed for council tax and utility bills. Sentence – Jailed for 12 months in February 2011. Released – May 2011 after serving four months. Jim Devine Former Labour MP for Livingston Offence – Found guilty of dishonestly claiming £8,385 in parliamentary expenses. Details – Claimed for cleaning and maintenance and printing work that the judge said was “entirely bogus”. Sentence – Jailed for 16 months. Released – August after serving a quarter of his sentence. Labour minister Denis MacShane jailed for six months after admitting making fake expense claims amounting to nearly £13,000. One of the reasons the public was so incensed and remain so, is because so many of those who were quite clearly guilty of misappropriating taxpayers money got off with it. The few that were found guilty got light sentences and served even less. Michael Martin was instrumental in trying to cover the whole thing up, and hampering enquiries using anything and everything from Parliamentary procedure to anti-terrorism laws. He was rewarded with a seat in the House of Lords. And you wonder why the Public don't trust politicians...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 You think defrauding the exchequer of hundreds of thousands of pounds by VAT fraud or tobacco smuggling or tax credit scams is "keeping more of your own money"? See, that is why certain sections of society get away with evasion and avoidance and fraud, because people like you pretend that it is OK to not pay your taxes. You seem to think that taxation is legalised theft and therefore anyone who doesn't pay it is some sort of Robin Hood figure. Incorrect. When you don't pay your taxes hospitals close, soldiers get shot through lack of armour and the precious immigration controls that you so love are cut back. Do you see? It is, they take money off working people so that they can squander it on wars, lazy people and themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 And Labour seems incompatible with honesty if the conduct of those sent to jail is anything to go by Maybe the Conservatives have better lawyers? They're just as crooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Maybe the Conservatives have better lawyers? They're just as crooked. Or even the number of judges/magistrates that habitually vote Conservative, have Conservative MPs as friends and donate to the party. A story always has to sides and everyone is looking for an edge. They’re all at it in one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 You think defrauding the exchequer of hundreds of thousands of pounds by VAT fraud or tobacco smuggling or tax credit scams is "keeping more of your own money"? See, that is why certain sections of society get away with evasion and avoidance and fraud, because people like you pretend that it is OK to not pay your taxes. You seem to think that taxation is legalised theft and therefore anyone who doesn't pay it is some sort of Robin Hood figure. Incorrect. When you don't pay your taxes hospitals close, soldiers get shot through lack of armour and the precious immigration controls that you so love are cut back. Do you see? A good post, that. HMG does not have any money- it belongs to us, the mug taxpayers. And we don't like being defrauded: whether by MPs, G4S, A4E- or builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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