Should the Police racial mix reflect the communities they serve?

[ronthenekred]

I fully agree that the police service should be made up of sections of society that they serve.

But the point is that no section of the community is excluded from applying to join and all know this. If certain sections do not wish to follow a career in the police service that is their choice and not the police's fault.

Information evenings are, or at least used to be held, which were open to anyone interested in a police career.

 

 

If the Police or any public body are seen as inherently racist then the "choice" is almost a given.

 

If the EDL had an open day I don't think you'd get much of a response from Mr Ogadoodoo.

[harvey19]

I think your view is a naive one, application is open to anybody, but for various reasons some people believe it isn't a career for them, when actually it very much could be and they would add something rather than take something away.

 

There are many talented individuals from many under represented groups who would make great coppers and I'd rather improve their chances of getting there rather than sit on my hands and say they can apply if they want to.

 

There was a fairly lively debate here the other day about the police's powers regarding stop & search and the use of racial profiling. The black community in London particularly are suspicious of the police and many distrust them. The apprehension and shooting of Mark Duggan in 2011 led to the riots. You could believe that the black community might have less to complain about if there was a higher probability that they might be stopped & searched by a black officer (I'm not at all advocating that blacks should only be searched by black officers by the way).

 

I am not naive at all just realistic.

There is nothing stopping anyone with a suitable background(no criminal convictions), ability to pass the entrance exam, interviews and medical from applying to join.

They have to want to follow that career and it is a fact that it is their choice not to. Not anything to do with certain sections being excluded.

[boyfriday]

To be fair nonces, muggers and terrorists are all 'under represented', for good reason.

..and thankfully are not subject to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act when making an application to join the police.

The police should have the best people that apply to put themselves on the line to uphold the law, if they need coaxing into it they are not suitable. Race/religion should not come into it.

 

I'm really at a loss to see why people would be against the police service reaching out to get as many quality applications as it can, irrespective of what colour they are.

 

I think there are many white, working class youths in areas which have been policed with a heavy hand who wouldn't consider joining the police, but would have the nous to make good coppers. In fact the current Met Commissioner is a working class Sheffield lad and he brings qualities to that job which are quite distinct from his middle/upper class predecessors.

[lizmachin]

Promotion through the ranks because of ethnicity rather than talent.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Dizaei

 

Jamshid Ali Dizaei (Persian: جمشید علی دیزایی‎, Jamshīd ʿAlī Dizaī; Persian pronunciation: [dizɒːjiː]) (born 1962) is a former Commander in London's Metropolitan Police Service, Iranian-born with dual nationality, and formerly one of Britain's more senior Muslim police officers,[2] Dizaei came to prominence as a result of his outspoken views on racial discrimination in the London Metropolitan Police and various allegations of malpractice on his part. He was jailed for perverting the course of justice in February 2010. Although he was later released on appeal he was eventually re-convicted and re-sentenced on 13 February 2012.[3]

 

He had received advancement after his criticism of the force following his claims of racism.[4] He was a frequent media commentator on a variety of issues, mainly concerned with ethnicity and religion.

 

In April 2008, he was promoted to Commander, responsible for West London. In August 2008, he was presented with the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal by the Commissioner, Sir Ian Blair.[5]

 

On 8 February 2010, he was convicted in the Crown Court before Mr Justice Simon on charges of perverting the course of justice and of misconduct in a public office, and was jailed for four years.[3][6] He had been suspended on full pay since September 2008 and on 31 March 2010 was formally dismissed from the Metropolitan Police.[7]

 

Dizaei was initially imprisoned at HMP Edmunds Hill, Suffolk. He was seriously assaulted by other inmates and moved to HMP Usk.[8] He said he was also subject of an attack by another inmate in Prescoed Prison. He claimed inmates wrote threatening remarks on his family photographs and placed excrement on his belongings.[9]

 

On 16 May 2011, Dizaei's appeal against this conviction was successful and the conviction was quashed.

 

In the Court of Appeal Lord Justice Hughes said that the court "simply [did] not know whether this conviction is soundly based or not". He continued, "In those circumstances we are driven to the conclusion that it cannot be regarded as safe."[10] Dizaei's claim after his release was that he "left prison with his integrity completely intact".[11] He described his experience in prison as 'hell', and likened it to 'putting your hand in a wasps' nest'.[12] He publicly thanked his wife for exposing the false identity of Waad Al Baghdadi and his benefit fraud.[13]

 

In September 2011 Dizaei was successful in an appeal against his dismissal from the Metropolitan Police, since his conviction had been quashed by the Court of Appeal. However he did not return to duty, but remained suspended pending his forthcoming retrial in the Crown Court on charges of misconduct in public office and perverting the course of justice.[14][15]

 

On a retrial in the Crown Court at Southwark before Mr Justice Saunders, concluding on 13 February 2012, Dizaei was again found guilty of perverting the course of justice and of misconduct in a public office.[16] He was sentenced to three years imprisonment. On 15 May 2012 he was dismissed from the Metropolitan Police.[17]

[boyfriday]

I am not naive at all just realistic.

There is nothing stopping anyone with a suitable background(no criminal convictions), ability to pass the entrance exam, interviews and medical from applying to join.

They have to want to follow that career and it is a fact that it is their choice not to. Not anything to do with certain sections being excluded.

 

I didn't say anyone was excluded, I said they 'felt' excluded just as kids from comps 'feel' excluded from the judiciary even though there are no legitimate barriers to their entry. There may well not be anything stopping someone applying but if they don't even think about it as an option in the first place then we'll never know how good (or bad) they might have been.

[maxmaximus]

I think your view is a naive one, application is open to anybody, but for various reasons some people believe it isn't a career for them, when actually it very much could be and they would add something rather than take something away.

 

There are many talented individuals from many under represented groups who would make great coppers and I'd rather improve their chances of getting there rather than sit on my hands and say they can apply if they want to.

 

There was a fairly lively debate here the other day about the police's powers regarding stop & search and the use of racial profiling. The black community in London particularly are suspicious of the police and many distrust them. The apprehension and shooting of Mark Duggan in 2011 led to the riots. You could believe that the black community might have less to complain about if there was a higher probability that they might be stopped & searched by a black officer (I'm not at all advocating that blacks should only be searched by black officers by the way).

 

That’s irrelevant, it matters not what colour a police officer is, they all deserve the same respect and if someone doesn’t like the police because of their colour then we don’t really want them in the police anyway.

[boyfriday]

But the question is, is it acceptable to have officers restricted to areas that most represent their ethnicity?

 

Absolutely not in my opinion

[harvey19]

I didn't say anyone was excluded, I said they 'felt' excluded just as kids from comps 'feel' excluded from the judiciary even though their are no legitimate barriers to their entry. There may well not be anything stopping someone applying but if they don't even think about it as an option in the first place then we'll never know how good (or bad) they might have been.

 

Why should anyone feel excluded ? Maybe they don't think it is a suitable career for them which is very different.

Maybe they reject it as an option, but that is their problem and no one elses.

If anyone is interested in a police career they will surely seek advice from a careers adviser,the internet or attend information evenings with their local police.

[boyfriday]

That’s irrelevant, it matters not what colour a police officer is, they all deserve the same respect and if someone doesn’t like the police because of their colour then we don’t really want them in the police anyway.

 

In an ideal world it shouldn't matter but Im afraid the Met police do have some history of racially aggravated arrests, and intransigence towards the black community, the MacPherson Enquiry endorsed that view following the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

 

If all people, irrespective of their colour/sex/religion/sexual orientation/class were policed fairly in the first place we wouldn't have a need for this discussion.

 

---------- Post added 22-01-2013 at 20:28 ----------

 

Why should anyone feel excluded ? Maybe they don't think it is a suitable career for them which is very different.

Maybe they've not considered it as a career for them, hence my support for information evenings in schools and colleges.

 

Lets face it not many young people regard a career in the police as a sexy alternative to a nice suited job in an advertising agency.

[harvey19]

[/color] Maybe they've not considered it as a career for them, hence my support for information evenings in schools and colleges.

 

Lets face it not many young people regard a career in the police as a sexy alternative to a nice suited job in an advertising agency.

 

There is a waiting list to get in the police from those who have passed the entrance exams so obviously enough people are aware of it as a career.