Should the Police racial mix reflect the communities they serve?

[boyfriday]

These are the requirements and there's no mention of what colour, sex, or ethnic group they should come from.

 

No formal qualifications are required but magistrates need intelligence, common sense, integrity and the capacity to act fairly.

You're still missing my point-the justice department don't rely on applications to come in organically as they once used to, they proactively seek applications and if that has the result of increasing the number of magistrates who are black or female then that can only be a good thing.

 

Yes judges perform the sentencing exercise following a set of sentencing rules; I’m not sure why their background should be an issue to anyone as long as they follow the rules.

There are sentencing guidelines but these are open to interpretation, otherwise a computer would be employed to determine sentences. Judges are also involved in the granting of bail, which is a more subjective process of determination.

 

Their background is only an issue because it can lead to a loss of public confidence if judgements are made, either in sentencing or bail decisions which appear to fly in the face of commonsense and their background is blamed..you must have seen this many times.

 

Someone from an ordinary background making an identical decision wouldn't have that particular cross to bear, it doesn't necessarily make them better judges but it perhaps gives them a better understanding of the population they're paid to serve. On a political theme, David Cameron who comes across as a nice guy in my opinion, is often derided because of his Eton education and upper class background, in some quarters he will never have the credibility to represent the views of the people.

[LeMaquis]

No, the law of the state comes first. However, everyone is aware that some people would want to change the rules of the state to match their own rules.

 

Who is talking about political parties? I know I wasn't.

 

If political parties don't make the law of the state through Parliament, who does?

[maxmaximus]

You're still missing my point-the justice department don't rely on applications to come in organically as they once used to, they proactively seek applications and if that has the result of increasing the number of magistrates who are black or female then that can only be a good thing.

 

I see it as neither good nor bad, a magistrate is a magistrate and their colour and sex is irrelevant providing they have some common sense, integrity and the capacity to act fairly, and how do they proactively attract people from these groups?

 

Their background is only an issue because it can lead to a loss of public confidence if judgements are made, either in sentencing or bail decisions which appear to fly in the face of commonsense and their background is blamed..you must have seen this many times.

 

Someone from an ordinary background making an identical decision wouldn't have that particular cross to bear, it doesn't necessarily make them better judges but it perhaps gives them a better understanding of the population they're paid to serve. On a political theme, David Cameron who comes across as a nice guy in my opinion, is often derided because of his Eton education and upper class background, in some quarters he will never have the credibility to represent the views of the people.

 

I see your point but I’ve never really understood why anyone would dislike someone just because of their background and I'm not convinced we should be bending over backwards just to please such people.

[Harleyman]

I would have thought that racial diversity in the police force would have been something to work towards long ago.

 

Public relations are a vital part of police work

[Green Web]

I would have thought that racial diversity in the police force would have been something to work towards long ago.

 

Public relations are a vital part of police work

 

Not the Met, they're mostly just bent corporate bullies out to harass almost anyone who doesn't appear to be shopping, especially black kids and photographers.

 

I'd say most other Police forces are generally OK and public relations are on the whole quite good but the Met has a long way to go.

[Mecky]

If political parties don't make the law of the state through Parliament, who does?

 

You know full well what I'm talking about even if you don't like to admit it for obvious reasons.

[jfish1936]

If I, of English origin, were a policeman in, say, India, I might well live in an area of town where many English lived.

Would I be under any pressure to deal leniently with a "brother Englishman"?

Would I lose friends by enforcing the law on people who claimed to be of my "group"?

 

Is a policeman of African, Arab or Indian origin faced with such problems in policing Sheffield?

[boyfriday]

I see it as neither good nor bad, a magistrate is a magistrate and their colour and sex is irrelevant providing they have some common sense, integrity and the capacity to act fairly,

So do you think magistrates say pre 1980 had all those qualities? Most probably did but they were drawn from the upper eschelons, the benevolent wives of golf club chairmen or the company director who retired early and had time on his hands. Absolutely nothing wrong with these people but most people would agree that encouraging applications from all sections of society is a good thing and it leads to public confidence in the system which in my view is an important feature.

and how do they proactively attract people from these groups?

I didn't say anything about proactively attracting these groups, my point related to the justice department not relying on applications from certain sections of society as they had done in the past. The regular campaigns seeking applications to the magistracy has widened the scope of applications, which naturally has had the effect of receiving more applications from all under-represented groups and hopefully improved the qualities of magistrates generally.

 

I see your point but I’ve never really understood why anyone would dislike someone just because of their background and I'm not convinced we should be bending over backwards just to please such people.

Unfortunately people in authority are human beings, subject to the same prejudices and insecurities as the rest of us, doesn't make them bad people but if someone's default is to be wary or suspicious of people who don't look like them then that's a difficult thing to overcome when they're dispensing justice, it's equally difficult for the person on the receiving end if they believe the system is set up against them because the people sending them to prison have never encountered poverty, poor housing, poor education-the causal features of crime.

 

Incidentally, I didn't say anything about 'bending over backwards' to please people, I simply want the best people to hold roles in public service and that they broadly reflect the society they're paid to serve. I wouldn't advocate quotas or dumbing down entry requirements to achieve that, but I don't see what's wrong with the police service and justice department visiting schools and colleges to perform charm offensives.

 

---------- Post added 24-01-2013 at 13:23 ----------

 

If I, of English origin, were a policeman in, say, India, I might well live in an area of town where many English lived.

Would I be under any pressure to deal leniently with a "brother Englishman"?

Would I lose friends by enforcing the law on people who claimed to be of my "group"?

 

Is a policeman of African, Arab or Indian origin faced with such problems in policing Sheffield?

 

That's a good point, but I'm sure the training of police officers takes into account dealing with people you might know or share some superficial allegiance with..I remember the anecdotal tales of the 70's where mason police officers stopping a vehicle would let the drink driver on his way after encountering the familiar handshake.

 

Of course, we'll never know if favouritism has any influence in the modern police force, but the prospect of it shouldn't be a reason for not recruiting officers of a particular group.

 

Hope you're keeping well by the way jfish

 

---------- Post added 24-01-2013 at 13:28 ----------

 

Not the Met, they're mostly just bent corporate bullies out to harass almost anyone who doesn't appear to be shopping, especially black kids and photographers.

 

You're over gilding the lily now Green Web

[vinyl]

If I, of English origin, were a policeman in, say, India, I might well live in an area of town where many English lived.

Would I be under any pressure to deal leniently with a "brother Englishman"?

Would I lose friends by enforcing the law on people who claimed to be of my "group"?

 

Is a policeman of African, Arab or Indian origin faced with such problems in policing Sheffield?

 

There are clearly several members of this forum who if they were police officers would never stop and search people from their own ethnic groups. Pretty soon in some areas of the city it would be possible for certain sections of the community to operate completely immune from the laws of the land.

[boyfriday]

There are clearly several members of this forum who if they were police officers would never stop and search people from their own ethnic groups.

 

How do you arrive at that conclusion?