Kidorry Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 STOP PRESS 99% of atheists believe all religions are intolerant and try to impose their views on others!!. No we don`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I don't believe this is "context". It is, when comparable polls in close temporal proximity give comparable results in both countries. The French population is very different to that of the UK, their population ratios are different, their demographic is different and their history is different.I disagree fundamentally with that point - particularly where (rightly or wrongly) appraising islam against social norms and values (which are eminently comparable in both countries) is concerned. After that, whether the poll results translate genuine social/integration issues, or merely translate the outcome of sustained, biased influence, is another debate. The core point is that, by the results of this poll, in comparison with the YouGov poll I referred to, substantially the same 'problem' raised in the OP exists in the UK - I'm quite positive it also exists in many further western countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No we don`t. You must be part of the 1% then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidorry Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 You must be part of the 1% then No it is just you that likes making these sweeping statements to try and justify your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Ooo you are awful...but I like you I allways wonderd where you'd: got your personality from now I'm left in no doubt:heyhey: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Looks like the French are getting fed up with Islam. Maybe on the back of the Mali war and the Albanian hostage crisis, but none the less, they are reacting to it and unlike us Brits, they tend to act. Ipsos has just published a survey that could highlights a growing dissatisfaction with Islam in France. Not only do 74% of French people think Islam is 'intolerant' but 8 out of 10 French people believe the Islam tries to impose its views on others. http://ansamed.ansa.it/ansamed/en/news/sections/generalnews/2013/01/24/Islam-74-French-say-an-intolerant-religion_8133243.html They've took their time, this from 2010, But even if many government elites are in France are in denial over Islam, the people in the streets increasingly are not. Some have become fed up with what they see as the growing Islamization of France. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/august/islamization-of-paris-a-warning-to-the-west/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No it is just you that likes making these sweeping statements to try and justify your argument. ..it was obviously a joke! I cant comment on what 99% of atheists believe or don't believe, but what I do know is that 74% of French folks saying Islam is intolerant is no more surprising than 99% of atheists believing all religions are intolerant. ---------- Post added 25-01-2013 at 13:11 ---------- What a wise post. Tell the people who would like these threads removed, the very method or excuse you need to delete the thread Please moderate, warn or ban those who will try and degrade a thread like this instead of giving a guide to those who want to restrict these kinds of discussions. I enjoy the argument far too much to want the thread removed, closed or restricted. You let yourself down by suggesting those who disagree with you have such an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 It is, when comparable polls in close temporal proximity give comparable results in both countries. I disagree fundamentally with that point - particularly where (rightly or wrongly) appraising islam against social norms and values (which are eminently comparable in both countries) is concerned. After that, whether the poll results translate genuine social/integration issues, or merely translate the outcome of sustained, biased influence, is another debate. The core point is that, by the results of this poll, in comparison with the YouGov poll I referred to, substantially the same 'problem' raised in the OP exists in the UK - I'm quite positive it also exists in many further western countries. Loob I think you may have misunderstood. I don't believe the UK can be compared to France for context in this situation. Our populations are different and our histories are also very different. ---------- Post added 25-01-2013 at 13:19 ---------- I enjoy the argument far too much to want the thread removed, closed or restricted. You let yourself down by suggesting those who disagree with you have such an agenda. Sadist I think there is ample evidence that some threads are attacked by certain population on here in order to try and get them removed. There are those who can discuss any topic as adults, counting present company but then there are those who cannot and once they start, the reasonable lot slip away and its left to be dregs and then the mods swoop in and delete the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Hans Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Richard Dawkins once that he regards "Islam as one of the great evils in the world." Now, Richard is an Oxford professor, so he's probably more qualified than any of us on the subject. So, thread done, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Loob I think you may have misunderstood. I don't believe the UK can be compared to France for context in this situation. Our populations are different and our histories are also very different.I have understood, Wex. I just disagree with you On the assumption that the polled populations were indeed Jean Duponts in France and Dave Smiths in the UK, in each case in sufficient numbers to be statistically representative, then what these stats relate to is the inherent incompatibility of salafism with western social values and norms, and how this incompatibility is currently perceived in practice. The stats basically say that a majority of Joe Averages in France and in the UK believe islam by and large is out to get them/their way of life. The populations are not so different at all. Historical reasons leading to the muslim presence in Fracne are the exact same as for the UK, i.e. ex-colonies and their preferrential treatment à la Commonwealth (after a fashion). French muslims simply have a different geographical origin to Brit muslims. Proportions (relative to the total population) are comparable, ghetto-isation and stigmatisation are comparable, vocal salafist minorities pushing their agenda via the legal system are the same, etc. Importantly, the religion is the same, and the issues its "variable" teaching raises are the same: the more extreme end of the spectrum runs entirely counter to basic tenets of 'western' life, which both countries have entirely in common. As commented by the philosopher guy I quoted/translated, it's a pity the moderate branch gets progressively ever more tainted by the minority fundamntalist branch (as reflected by the French and Brit polls) and, for its sake, it's getting to be high time the moderates stopped sitting on their thumb and got their act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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