boyfriday Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 No I'm not misassociating anything! France has had massive Muslim immigration over recent years - You're merely endorsing your ignorance, associating immigrants with people who seek free clothing, healthcare and education. all folk in France get free healthcare, a bit like we do, even those who are Muslim and were born there! (Didn't you know that?) Well I'm just finalising my tax return and I can assure you I've never been the beneficiary of free healthcare. The "cradle of civilisation" is a much disputed term, and does not have anything to do with Islam in practise. How could it? I never suggested it did, I was disputing your claim that people would move to France for those reasons. How could the foundation and propagation of any superstition have anything to do with "civilisation"? Well I think it's a comparative analysis, when the people of the middle east were worshipping their particular sky pixie from the comfort of properly built homes surrounded by objet d'art, your ancestors were running around naked making grunting noises at things that went bump in the night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Dodging the question on the quotes by using a positive quote from what is a different source doesnt really fit in with the question put to you,what is your thinking on the quotes taken from the quoran ? My Bold= Are you refering to the ones read out of context to suit a certain agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Why wouldn`t the french like Muslims. They only burnt out 1200 cars to "celebrate the new year". http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/01/islam-in-france-1200-car-burned-police-attacked-over-new-years-eve.html On a side note the French are completely slashing immigrant benefits by a whopping 80% so yay for the French!! :clap:[/quote] It should be stopped completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marx Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Islam is intolerent when left to the radicals who want a theocracy. I don't really understand the concept of 'moderate Muslims' either. Fortunately Islam gave up on science some centuries ago so it doesn't pose much of a threat to the modern world. However, as most of its adhereants believe that this life is just a rehearsal for Paradise, I am most concerned as to what they can be persuaded to do. Do you feel comforable with Bronze Age cultures having weapons of mass destructon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Dodging the question on the quotes by using a positive quote from what is a different source doesnt really fit in with the question put to you,what is your thinking on the quotes taken from the quoran ? Eh? Do what? I've already said what I thought;- I explained that the quotes were taken woefully out of context, and a complete misrepresentation of the meaning of that particular verse. It's a verse that the idiots and the unlearned frequently leap on, and use, as a means to justify their narrow-minded Islamophobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Eh? Do what? I've already said what I thought;- I explained that the quotes were taken woefully out of context, and a complete misrepresentation of the meaning of that particular verse. It's a verse that the idiots and the unlearned frequently leap on, and use, as a means to justify their narrow-minded Islamophobia. So set the record straight and explain the quotes in context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 So set the record straight and explain the quotes in context Did you actually read my earlier response, or are you saying this just for the sake of argument? I already said, the origin of the quotes come from a time when the early Muslims were at war. This verse, and the verses around it refer to what should be done in that situation to protect themselves. Also it talks about punishment, and explains how any punishment should be fair and just and, by dint of this, must be proportionate to the crimes actually committed. As I said, the verses around need to be understood too:- the next verse (9V6)says:- "If one amongst the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure." Does that command to show mercy actually need to be explained? another Surah in the Qur'an (60, v8-9) tells us:- "God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of your religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Islam is intolerent when left to the radicals who want a theocracy. I don't really understand the concept of 'moderate Muslims' either. Fortunately Islam gave up on science some centuries ago so it doesn't pose much of a threat to the modern world. However, as most of its adhereants believe that this life is just a rehearsal for Paradise, I am most concerned as to what they can be persuaded to do. Do you feel comforable with Bronze Age cultures having weapons of mass destructon? Considering they gave up on science "some centuries ago":rolleyes: I'd be surprised if they could change a light bulb. Rather than decry science as a way forward (because politicians seem to be making a right rats arse of it) maybe that's the future..science as a means to dispel religious dogma. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-iran-jordan-and-turkey-join-forces-for-multimillion-dollar-science-project-1.418731 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Did you actually read my earlier response, or are you saying this just for the sake of argument? I already said, the origin of the quotes come from a time when the early Muslims were at war. This verse, and the verses around it refer to what should be done in that situation to protect themselves. Also it talks about punishment, and explains how any punishment should be fair and just and, by dint of this, must be proportionate to the crimes actually committed. As I said, the verses around need to be understood too:- the next verse (9V6)says:- "If one amongst the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure." Does that command to show mercy actually need to be explained? another Surah in the Qur'an (60, v8-9) tells us:- "God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of your religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice. " and the next verse:- Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. tut tut out of context PT..in other words you can fight among yourselves thats OK you can then look after each other but its different when you are fighting against another religion then its no mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Did you actually read my earlier response, or are you saying this just for the sake of argument? I already said, the origin of the quotes come from a time when the early Muslims were at war. This verse, and the verses around it refer to what should be done in that situation to protect themselves. Also it talks about punishment, and explains how any punishment should be fair and just and, by dint of this, must be proportionate to the crimes actually committed. As I said, the verses around need to be understood too:- the next verse (9V6)says:- "If one amongst the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure." Does that command to show mercy actually need to be explained? another Surah in the Qur'an (60, v8-9) tells us:- "God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of your religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice. " What would happen if someone didn’t want asylum or to hear the word of God, because that verse doesn’t explain. Who decides when we are at war? Infiltration and deception are allowed according to the Quran, so if we are at war we wouldn’t necessarily know about it until it was too late. And some Muslims have declared war so all the verses about war are relevant if you believe the Quran is the ward of God and should be obeyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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