PaliRichard Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 We will have to agree to disagree, because whatever I type appears to mean something entirely different to me than it means to you. No we wont. I've got a good idea, why don't you answer this question. What do you think are the 'good ideas' that those opposed to gay marriage have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 We will have to agree to disagree, because whatever I type appears to mean something entirely different to me than it means to you. Or you could answer this in an open, honest and non-evasive fashion - What do you think are the 'good ideas' that those opposed to gay marriage have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 That’s fine and it’s the reason there is little point explaining again and again why neither side has convinced me that they are right whilst the other side is wrong, we disagree and its apparent we will never agree no matter how many times I say the same thing. Telling me I’m irrational, or telling an opponent of gay marriage they are homophobic bigots won’t change their opinions. It might stop them continuing the discussion though. That's the futility of arguing with the religious, telling them that they're irrational doesn't cause them to stop and re-examine what they believe. In fact, no amount of reason or evidence will do that because they have faith and faith doesn't bow to logic. It's been demonstrated how not allowing gay couples to marry is discriminatory, in fact, it's self evident. To claim otherwise is be wilfully ignorant or disingenuous. ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 17:34 ---------- They can get 'married' if it fulfills their quest for happiness etc. However, only the union of male & female produce children so that singular institution is given social recognition and the proper label of marriage. Let's face it, none of us would be here if it was not for the union of our mothers and fathers coming together..and bringing you in to world! Are you claiming that everyone posting on the thread is the child of a married couple? ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 17:36 ---------- It is natural for a man and woman to cement their marriage/union by producing offspring. There's nothing natural about it. We don't see animals getting 'married' in order to have young. It's a social concept that we've created. If they cannot have children- and of course this happens, they may adopt- however it does not change the fundamental make up of raising a child with TWO parents of the opposite sex which would also be the right ingredient to give that child a healthy lifestyle- free from any prejudice they may face if this was a child raised by 'two daddies' or 'two mummies'. So it's the children you're concerned about... Excuse me whilst I vomit. I am not against gays getting married- that I make clear. I don't approve of it for certain reasons- but can tolerate it. What a progressive attitude you have, your married parents would no doubt be proud. ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 17:43 ---------- seriously if you are gay why would you want to to get married by an organization that thinks these things of you:huh: This isn't about gay couples being married by a christian church, it's about gay couples being legally able to marry. Marriage is not restricted to christians or to the religious you know. ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 17:49 ---------- Many people use the same reasons that Harvey presented has their reasons for opposeing gay marriage. Believing that marriage is the union of one man and one women is a reasonable stance in my opinion and doesn’t make the person holding that opinion a bigot or homophobic. It's a circular reference to the current state, it isn't a justification for why that state is correct and should be maintained. I'm guessing that you won't have answered any questions put to you by the time I catch up with the end of the thread. ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 17:51 ---------- We will have to agree to disagree, because whatever I type appears to mean something entirely different to me than it means to you. There appear to be two groups when it comes to understanding what you write. There's you. And there's everyone else. Perhaps your use of English is somewhat unusual, or perhaps you can find an argument to be reasonable whilst disagreeing with it... That's quite difficult though. But you haven't (still) answered whether or not you do agree with it. So which is it? Do you only find it reasonable, or do you actually agree with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 There appear to be two groups when it comes to understanding what you write. There's you. And there's everyone else. Perhaps your use of English is somewhat unusual, or perhaps you can find an argument to be reasonable whilst disagreeing with it... That's quite difficult though. But you haven't (still) answered whether or not you do agree with it. So which is it? Do you only find it reasonable, or do you actually agree with it? Hundreds of people including some SF members understand my use the English language, and it’s always the same members that find my use of English difficult to understand, especially when I am disagreeing with them. I think it’s a reasonable reason for not supporting gay marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ahem. Mr Smith. Question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 No we wont. I've got a good idea, why don't you answer this question. What do you think are the 'good ideas' that those opposed to gay marriage have? For anyone with a belief in God this looks a reasonable reason for opposing gay marriage. This is the most important reason. Whenever one violates the natural moral order established by God, one sins and offends God. Same-sex “marriage” does just this. Accordingly, anyone who professes to love God must be opposed to it. Marriage is not the creature of any State. Rather, it was established by God in Paradise for our first parents, Adam and Eve. As we read in the Book of Genesis: “God created man in His image; in the Divine image he created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them, saying: ‘Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.’” (Gen. 1:28-29) The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus Christ: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife.” (Mark 10:6-7). Genesis also teaches how God punished Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality: “The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.” (Gen. 19:24-25) I don't have a belief in God but I respect their right to believe in God and their right to form opinions based on that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Do you agree with it? Based on that reasoning you would conclude that it's reasonable for a religious person to want to stone a gay to death... Is that what you think? I would contend that "the fact that a religious book says it should be" does not make a believe or opinion reasonable. It might explain where the belief comes from, but there is no test of reasonableness inherent in that source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't have a belief in God If you don't share their belief in God, why do you think an argument that is based on God is a "reasonable reason"? I don't share their belief, which is why I think it is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 For anyone with a belief in God this looks a reasonable reason for opposing gay marriage. As god doesn't exist you're saying that they can oppose gay marriage because they've invented a fictional reason not to support it. Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. And why does belief in god mean you must oppose gay marriage and not oppose anything else specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 That's the futility of arguing with the religious, telling them that they're irrational doesn't cause them to stop and re-examine what they believe. In fact, no amount of reason or evidence will do that because they have faith and faith doesn't bow to logic. ? I think its time you re-examined your own irrational attitude,because by stating such a remark you obviously need to.Lots of religious people examine their fixed beliefs on many issues and do change their minds very often. You appear to assume that only the non-religious agree with gay marriage,do a little research and open your mind. Do you think it was only atheists that backed the bill to legalise gay marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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