Tony Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Your poll needs more options. Clearly not all of the NHS is bad. Millions of people are treated every week. I understand your point but I disagree. It the NHS is fit for purpose or not. If you knew which bits were OK there might be some merit in more options, but the whole thing is a lottery. Incidents of poor standards of care are not statistically isolated, they are rife, we've all heard of somebody that's suffered at the hands of the NHS. The National Health Service, as a service, an institution, a body, is not fit for purpose in my view, but there is plenty of space below for anyone to counter that with a detailed response as to why they disagree if they wish. They can vote "Yes" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have read somewhere that a few nurses and doctors are being investigated by their respective professional bodies in the wake of this scandal. Very good, but clearly as usual, the foot soldiers will carry the can and the appalling management are home free with no repercussions. There are a number of other NHS trusts now under intense investigation for similar failings (though not apparently involving deaths on the Staffs scale) But it's the foot soldiers who were ignoring people's suffering, not some pencil pusher upstairs. They are all equally culpable. ---------- Post added 07-02-2013 at 11:07 ---------- I understand your point but I disagree. It the NHS is fit for purpose or not. If you knew which bits were OK there might be some merit in more options, but the whole thing is a lottery. Incidents of poor standards of care are not statistically isolated, they are rife, we've all heard of somebody that's suffered at the hands of the NHS. The National Health Service, as a service, an institution, a body, is not fit for purpose in my view, but there is plenty of space below for anyone to counter that with a detailed response as to why they disagree if they wish. They can vote "Yes" too. I guess it's as fit as you are. If you know your stuff or have relatives advocates that do, you're ok. If not ........ How do other countries get on ? Has there been a Stafford in France or Germany, the US ? It's hard for most people to compare because it's all we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manlinose Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The National Health Service, as a service, an institution, a body, is not fit for purpose in my view, but there is plenty of space below for anyone to counter that with a detailed response as to why they disagree if they wish. They can vote "Yes" too. i do like a sweeping generalisation or two i suppose the first issue i have is, what is the purpose of the nhs? assuming it is to provide decent healthcare free of charge (and i know a lot of people have to pay for prescriptions, dentists, opticians etc) then i'm not sure i agree with the statement that it is not fit for purpose (other than the fact that i dislike this phrase anyway) clearly it provides a fantastic service to millions of people - many of whom would not be alive if not for the nhs as with any organisation of this nature and this size there will be things going wrong all the time but, not to downplay the seriousness of these issues, it does not mean that the whole organisation is at fault or broken secondly i take issue with the argument that "poor standards of care are rife" - poor standards of care are reported and newsworthy, reasonable, good and excellent standards are neither but i would suggest are more common i have no idea how many people suffer poor standards of care in the hands of the nhs, but suspect that, as a proportion of all its patients, it is a very small number maybe i need to get out more and meet more sick people, or maybe i have just been unusually lucky, but i have made numerous (over 30 - i've just checked my diaries!) visits to various hospitals in and around yorkshire over the past 3 years for various reasons and various friends and relatives, ranging from A&E to high dependency/ITU and have not once seen/heard/experienced any level of care which was cause for concern - all the healthcare professionals and staff i have met and had dealings with have been capable and competent and, in most cases, have been friendly and helpful and just for the sake of it, i do not work for the nhs and do not know anyone who does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I have read somewhere that a few nurses and doctors are being investigated by their respective professional bodies in the wake of this scandal. Very good, but clearly as usual, the foot soldiers will carry the can and the appalling management are home free with no repercussions. There are a number of other NHS trusts now under intense investigation for similar failings (though not apparently involving deaths on the Staffs scale) Why are the people on the front line not responsible for their (in)actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottf Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 In my personal opinion i think its fit for purpose- especially in Sheffield. In all of my dealings with them for a broken arm, broken leg and colon cancer they have been efficient, polite and very good at there jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloom Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Could the NHS be better? Of course it could. Is privatisation the answer? HELL NO! Is this ConDem government fit for purpose? Not in a million years. Is the NHS fit for purpose? To a degree. Have we heard anything new in this 'scandal' that hasn't been going on in the NHS up and down the country for years? No. Will we get an appropriate reduction in taxes when we've got to pay exorbitant prices for healthcare? Of course not. Will we get a refund for what we've paid in already? Of course not. Will we get an increase in wages so that we can pay exorbitant prices for healthcare? Of course not. Will the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats ever win an election in this country again if they privatise the NHS? Not in a million years. ---------- Post added 08-02-2013 at 00:32 ---------- It's just another step closer to the workhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 LeMaquis, I'm very careful to avoid misrepresentation and always provide my source. Please read the OP again. Thanks. He asked you to provide evidence so just do it. And don't provide evidence of opinions either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Tony, I'm curious as to what your alternative would be. Clearly, government policy is trying to push us to more of an American-style system. While that system is highly profitable for private businesses it costs considerably more (as a % of GDP) than the NHS, fails to cover whole swathes of the US population adequately, is the focus of a huge medical litigation industry and doesn't always deliver significantly better outcomes despite the astronomical costs involved. What health system do you think we should have and are there any countries that already have such a system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 He asked you to provide evidence so just do it. And don't provide evidence of opinions either He's going to tag it to the end of the whole raft of "evidence" you've been asked to provide and ignored; regarding spurious statements you've made over the last few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manlinose Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 This is a cut and paste from The Times yesterday - I'm not sure if you can link directly as I think you need a subscription, but I've attached it anyway http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health/news/article3680619.ece Inspectors are not capable of spotting a similar tragedy, regulators admitted after the inquiry report criticised “every single level” of the health service. “There was a lack of care, compassion, humanity and leadership. The most basic standards of care were not observed,” Robert Francis, QC, who led the inquiry into the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust, said. He found “an insidious negative culture involving a tolerance of poor standards”, adding that Stafford was “not an event of such rarity or improbability that it would be safe to assume that it will not be repeated”. Mr Francis said: “The current situation is that we’ve seen the system fail to detect Stafford for years and I’ve said and I’ll say again that we can have no confidence that, therefore, there isn’t another one. “We have failure at every single level of the NHS system, from local scrutiny groups up to the Department of Health.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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