Cyclone Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 How about Southern Cross, would you imagine that they were making a large profit? Late 2011 the news said Doubling in number of care home firms collapsing into administration Southern Cross joined by more than 70 smaller companies as care crisis widens So I guess they're not just making money for old rope. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/14/care-home-administrations-double Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Southern cross have sold quite a few to four seasons group, who are updating buildings, training staff and coming up with some pretty good ideas, pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 How about Southern Cross, would you imagine that they were making a large profit? Late 2011 the news said So I guess they're not just making money for old rope. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/14/care-home-administrations-double why did you fail to mention this bloke who seems to be doing well out of it http://www.dow-investments.com/rk-bio.htm it seems they are not all going to the wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 How about Southern Cross, would you imagine that they were making a large profit? Late 2011 the news said So I guess they're not just making money for old rope. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/14/care-home-administrations-double PFI also has a large baring on care home finances. A licence to put up rents without limit. Another case of the public having to pay for the mistakes of the politicians and those extortionately paid professionals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 why did you fail to mention this bloke who seems to be doing well out of it http://www.dow-investments.com/rk-bio.htm it seems they are not all going to the wall I didn't 'fail' to mention him. I also didn't claim that they were all going to the wall. I was countering an assertion that they were all making excessive profits. I only needed to show that a large number have/will go bust and the point from Anna B has been countered. Are you sure you understand how debate works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I didn't 'fail' to mention him. I also didn't claim that they were all going to the wall. I was countering an assertion that they were all making excessive profits. I only needed to show that a large number have/will go bust and the point from Anna B has been countered. Are you sure you understand how debate works? If they are having to pay off huge loans or inflated rents somebody is making excessive profits, and it's the old age pensioners who are paying the price (literally) for their mistakes. It also sets a market level so that all homes, struggling or not, can charge inflated prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Clearly the prices are not inflated if companies that charge these prices are going bust. What are you basing the assertion that they are inflated on? What in depth knowledge of the true cost of providing a retirement or nursing home do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libuse Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 If they are having to pay off huge loans or inflated rents somebody is making excessive profits, and it's the old age pensioners who are paying the price (literally) for their mistakes. It also sets a market level so that all homes, struggling or not, can charge inflated prices. Actually, the local authorities pretty much set the market rates as only a minority of homes put themselves into the category of requiring top ups, due to the obvious business risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Clearly the prices are not inflated if companies that charge these prices are going bust. What are you basing the assertion that they are inflated on? What in depth knowledge of the true cost of providing a retirement or nursing home do you have? I read articles like this: '...Anthony Cork of Accountants Wilkins Kennedy said, "The biggest problem for many care home groups was their eagerness to sell their properties and lease them back at ever increasing rents Care homes that used 'sale and leaseback' are now faced with rent increases that are far above market rates. This has led to a major cashflow squeeze when local authority funding starts to decline. Southern Cross is one example of how this could be fatal." (Quoted from the Guardian, 14th Nov. 2011) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libuse Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I read articles like this: '...Anthony Cork of Accountants Wilkins Kennedy said, "The biggest problem for many care home groups was their eagerness to sell their properties and lease them back at ever increasing rents Care homes that used 'sale and leaseback' are now faced with rent increases that are far above market rates. This has led to a major cashflow squeeze when local authority funding starts to decline. Southern Cross is one example of how this could be fatal." (Quoted from the Guardian, 14th Nov. 2011) But this doesn't support your argument that care home fees are inflated. It argues that the companies who own some care home premises are inflating their rents (which is precisely why Southern Cross collapsed). These companies have no role in fee setting, and most care homes in this position can't risk putting themselves in the top up bracket so can't meet rents via fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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