SUPERDREAM Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 You know as well as I do that none of the other parties stand a chance. The Lib Dems must rue the day they threw their lot in with the conservatives. They got their vote on changing the voting system (brilliantly handled by the cons to coincide with a mega drop in their popularity) and look how that ended. If any other party even got close to looking like they might win they would be nobbled. In any case, the politicians are the puppets of the megabucks corporations who really run the show, and they don't give a hoot about the population at large, only about making more money for themselves. So it doesn't really matter who wins, democracy is a sham. Might not be true that Anna. I have no choice but to avoid the top "three" at the next election, and its interesting how many others feel the same. The last election was closer than you think, with reference to the others, but times are changing, and there is a real sense of dismay with all that the three main parties stand for, giving rise to the party that offers a manifesto that puts british people first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Might not be true that Anna. I have no choice but to avoid the top "three" at the next election, and its interesting how many others feel the same. The last election was closer than you think, with reference to the others, but times are changing, and there is a real sense of dismay with all that the three main parties stand for, giving rise to the party that offers a manifesto that puts british people first. And which of the parties has actually stuck to the manifesto it was elected on? They will all lie through their teeth to get elected, then wriggle out of their promises as soon as it suits them, leaving us in exactly the same position. Sorry if I sound cynical, but it's because I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I think the ball park figure is out by whatever each town deems as "playing the system" residents. For an example of one section of the community, how many under twenties single girls can you see walking about with a toddler and a babe in pram= benefits on a huge scale. Free rent. Free council tax. Free giro once a fortnight. And probably extra payments because the toddler has ADHD (which was known as being naughty when we were kids) How many streets can you walk down in Sheffield and see this, never mind in other towns? Do you deem that to be morally right? These people KNOW they will be looked after by the state, and they wont be in the percentage of fraudsters because they are doing it LEGALLY. Just like my relative. Its shameful. Whilst I feel that is impossible to judge the complexities of a social problem by what evidence you assume you glean from what you witness on the streets I do agree there is a problem with a section of society who deem that benefits are their equivalent of a career choice. Obviously I am referring to those without health or other issues and who are capable of work. However, I also think that that proportion is vastly smaller than a lot believe as discussed here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/owen-jones-hatred-of-those-on-benefits-is-dangerously-out-of-control-7763793.html and here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/owen-jones-heres-the-question-could-you-live-on-67-a-week-6276210.html It isn't right that the situation exists and I certainly cannot condone fraud but it is not immoral to legally claim benefits. It is actually tragic that some see benefits as their only hope of some level of economic stability and others use children to maximise that income but those numbers are insignificant when considered in relation to the comprehensive good achieved by the system as a whole. Having said that it is unacceptable in a civilised society that any group, however small, sees benefits as the norm and lacks the hope, drive or self-worth to fully join in and contribute. The causes of this situation are complex and deep-seated and their resolution lies in an education that truly works for each individual to provide an accurate and realistic assessment of skills and learning styles together with a wide range of learning opportunities. Some will never feel comfortable in an exam hall and others would be dangerous with power tools. Education has to sort this out and help all kids to realise they can achieve in a variety of ways. After that all we have to do is ensure that economic investment has provided a variety of employment opportunities. Simple eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperdooper Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 So have I got this right you object to paying for the elderly because you assume they havent paid into the system,is that right? Not the current generation of elderly, who by and large will have worked and earned their rights just like those of us who have and are worked hard have. I have no objection at all to supporting them. It's the generations of people who haven't worked and contributed anything that I don't agree with. We will have paid for them all our lives at this rate while they have contributed absolutely nothing to society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yes but you know what they say you get what you vote for,the sheeple, sorry people have voted for this mess for years so sorry they get what they deserve. You have stated on other threads that you support National Socialism. If you think that the mess we're in now is bigger than the mess the German people were in in 1945 you obviously deserve to be in a mess yourself. Guess that rules out the Millipedes/ Mr Bean brothers , and all those politicians who've never had a proper job between them . Could I be wrong , but has Cameron's experience of scrubbing toilets and working as a hospital porter made him a better leader of this great country ?? Not forgetting Tony Blair's experience of long night shifts working security for Group 4 ....... And as for the Clegg ...coatroom attendant at the Limit must surely count as valid experience to run our country..What a set of pragmatists You have stated on other threads that you are a big fan of UKIP and Nigel Farage. Has Farage ever scrubbed toilets, been a hospital porter or worked for G4? No he was very pragmatic by following his father into the city where he had that very blue collar of jobs, stockbroking, just as his father had been. Funny how in your book Farage can get by on daddy's apron strings but other MPs can't. Very pragmatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Not the current generation of elderly, who by and large will have worked and earned their rights just like those of us who have and are worked hard have. I have no objection at all to supporting them. It's the generations of people who haven't worked and contributed anything that I don't agree with. We will have paid for them all our lives at this rate while they have contributed absolutely nothing to society Do I count? I've just hit 60, (have to work for the next couple of years) and will be getting progressively older possibly for the next 40 years. I've been working and paying in to the system since I was 16. Who are these generations of people who have not contributed to society? How do you discriminate between the deserving and undeserving elderly? And do you consider yourself to be deserving of help in your old age? I assure you old age will come to you too - sooner than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 i wonder how many of these feckless youths were brought up with hardworking parents, who through no fault of their own lost their jobs/thrown on the scrapheap?. saw the same parents who have saved all their lives on a pension which has been raided by the gov and not worth a bean.then to top it all off see the the men/women in gov fiddle expences/claim second homes allowance/give tax breaks to millionaires and still be told we are all init together . i can understand why some dont want to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperdooper Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 Do I count? I've just hit 60, (have to work for the next couple of years) and will be getting progressively older possibly for the next 40 years. I've been working and paying in to the system since I was 16. Who are these generations of people who have not contributed to society? How do you discriminate between the deserving and undeserving elderly? And do you consider yourself to be deserving of help in your old age? I assure you old age will come to you too - sooner than you think. You do count, and I am not far behind you. The deserving are those who have contributed to the system and society the non deserving are the ones who have spent all their lives expecting everything for free. I am sure you, like me will probably paid for child care, paid for school meals and trips, paid full council tax, paid full tax and national insurance and are now looking at having to pay for our care in our old age. The ones with no assets don't now there is a surprise! oh and I also lost my child benefit, the only thing i eVer got from the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I've asked this before and never had a satisfactory answer - why does residential care for the elderly cost £400 - £700 a week? I've never seen a breakdown of the figures, but from what I've seen, no way is it worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I've asked this before and never had a satisfactory answer - why does residential care for the elderly cost £400 - £700 a week? I've never seen a breakdown of the figures, but from what I've seen, no way is it worth it. I've no experience of it but on the assumption someone is available to assist all day every day, that's what, 168 hours per week. At minimum wage that would be around 1000 quid a week. That doesn't take into account the costs of running such a place - rent, business rates, food, etc which must be a fair bit. Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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