Ryedo40 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 No, that's agnostic, which is what I am. If you don't hold beliefs in a god - and you don't find reasonable evidence to justify holding such beliefs - you are an atheist. Being an atheist doesn't mean you reject the possibility of a god existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think you are wrong. I'm agnostic, so I can be deemed to have an absence of belief either way. An atheist in the context of what we're talking about here (can atheism promote good or bad behavior in the modern world) is vastly more likely to take the anti-theist definition than the toddler/some remote tribe that have never heard of the concept definition. Fair enough, use whatever definition of 'atheism' you want. Just bear in mind that when I use the word 'atheism', I'll be taking it to mean 'an absence of belief', as will several of the actual atheists on this thread. I'd also suggest that those atheists consider composing a reply to Andy, concerning his choice to use 'atheist=one who believes God does not exist', as, when that definition is used by believers, those same atheists tend to rip them to shreds over it: it's only fair that they apply the same standards to one of their own (though technically, they probably wouldn't see Andy as an atheist now?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Fair enough, use whatever definition of 'atheism' you want. Just bear in mind that when I use the word 'atheism', I'll be taking it to mean 'an absence of belief', as will several of the actual atheists on this thread. I'd also suggest that those atheists consider composing a reply to Andy, concerning his choice to use 'atheist=one who believes God does not exist', as, when that definition is used by believers, those same atheists tend to rip them to shreds over it: it's only fair that they apply the same standards to one of their own (though technically, they probably wouldn't see Andy as an atheist now?) Taking an 'an absence of belief' as the definition is absurd. Does an absence of belief in aliens make someone atheist? No, it's an absence of belief in god(s) and thus all that is associated with them. So an atheist will have their life choices informed by their belief that god(s) don't exist. Like religious people their character will determine whether that belief influences them badly (no judgement, no reward for good or punishment for bad so do what you want) or well (only opportunity for doing good is this life etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 It would make you an atheist. It is a belief though. Not having a belief in God is a belief in itself ? Please do explain that one to me! You believe that God does not exist I do? Blimey! You learn something new every day ergo no heaven, no hell no judgement day etc. So the fact that you believe that those things don't exist/won't happen can guide your actions in life, either for good or bad. Why was I not aware of these beliefs that I hold? And why do most dictionaries tell me the wrong definition of what atheist means? And why does the word translate into something less than it means??? Is this some conspiracy against me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 No, it's an absence of belief in god(s) and thus all that is associated with them. So an atheist will have their life choices informed by their belief that god(s) don't exist.Absence of belief in gods is not the same as positively believing there are no gods. ---------- Post added 14-02-2013 at 17:16 ---------- No, that's agnostic, which is what I am. Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive. I am both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Not having a belief in God is a belief in itself ? Please do explain that one to me! I do? Blimey! You learn something new every day Why was I not aware of these beliefs that I hold? And why do most dictionaries tell me the wrong definition of what atheist means? And why does the word translate into something less than it means??? Is this some conspiracy against me? You are aware of the concept of deities. Being aware of the concept that they do exist you have formed the view/belief that that is not a concept you subscribe to. You don't believe they exist. Assuming you are an atheist. If you don't know either way and believe it's not provable either way then you're agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 You are aware of the concept of deities. Being aware of the concept that they do exist you have formed the view/belief that that is not a concept you subscribe to. You don't believe they exist. Assuming you are an atheist. If you don't know either way and believe it's not provable either way then you're agnostic. I don't know whether there are any deities. I also do not believe that there are any deities. Therefore I am an agnostic atheist, very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 But atheism isn't a lack of belief. It's a belief that theism is incorrect and that god/gods don't exist. No, it's an absence of belief in god(s) You appear to be somewhat confused on the subject of atheism, and no, those quotes aren't taken out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 You appear to be somewhat confused on the subject of atheism, and no, those quotes aren't taken out of context. Not at all confused, there is a small subset that are unaware of belief in god(s) exists and thus are atheist without having a view on whether god(s) exist or not. Every other atheist, knowing some think god(s) exist would reply to the question "Do you believe one or more gods exist?" with a no. It is a belief that god(s) do not exist. Not a personal guarantee to mankind that god(s) don't exist, just a personal belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 You are aware of the concept of deities. Yes Being aware of the concept that they do exist you have formed the view/belief that that is not a concept you subscribe to. Whether I've "formed the view/belief that that is not a concept you subscribe to" or simply not been convinced, it doesn't mean I hold a belief that the deity/god doesn't exist You don't believe they exist. Assuming you are an atheist. Correct. This doesn't mean I hold a belief that the deity/god doesn't exist doesn't mean I hold a belief that the deity/god doesn't exist If you don't know either way and believe it's not provable either way then you're agnostic. Correct, as well as an atheist. I think your problem lies in; a) Having difficulty not understanding the difference between not believing in God (which is the same as not having a belief/lacking belief/having an absence of belief) and believing there's no God (which is an active belief that there is no God). b) Switching words and consequent meanings. An example is the last line of your post where suddenly you've exchanged "belief" for "If you don't know either way" but you continue as though this shift in language doesn't make a difference in what you are saying, it does. Knowledge and belief are not the same. Gnosticism deals with knowledge and theism deals with belief. Gnostic = knowing Agnostic = without knowing Theism = belief Atheism = without belief ---------- Post added 14-02-2013 at 20:57 ---------- Every other atheist, knowing some think god(s) exist would reply to the question "Do you believe one or more gods exist?" with a no. It is a belief that god(s) do not exist. This is what you're really stuck on, isn't it? You think that not having a belief in one thing, means that you must believe in the opposite. If I asked you "do you believe there is a pen in my hand?" what would you say? Would you believe it's there, yes or no? You have no reason to believe there is a pen in my hand, so you most likely wouldn't hold the belief that there is a pen in my hand. So does this mean that you have to believe I'm NOT holding a pen? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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