jfish1936 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 But just because you don't believe in god doesn't make it true, others have other beliefs where is your proof that their is no god ? Believers are polite to you because telling you your wrong juSt causes rows ...... I also don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster*, the great sea serpent, and Bigfoot. I cannot, logically, produce the negative proof of their non-existence. Yet I believe that giraffes exist, as I have been shown several quite close-up; similarly the duck-billed platypus. To prove that no specimen of sedimentary rock can float involves testing every existing piece of sedimentary rock. One floater proves that floating rock does exist; a million tests on sinkers still do not prove that floating rocks do not exist. btw, I say "sedimentary" to exclude pumice. * http://www.venganza.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I passed a church that was being demolished the other day, and another around the corner had become an antiques emporium[/Quote] Maybe if more people attended they wouldn't have to sell them? Hymns are being taken out of school assembly[/Quote] Do they chant Buddhist Suttas in schools? Do they have mass Salah (Muslim prayer)? etc Why should Christianity get special treatment, by all means teach all of these things for all students, or none, but why should one get preference? religious symbols are being taken down[/Quote] Are they? In what respect. and they might have to marry gay couples in church in the future[/Quote] Individual priests who object wont have to. Now the bombshell that the Pope just resigned, saying that the job is too much for a frail old man[/Quote] Catholics are not representitive of all Christians. On the whole, Christians are nice people, who get on with life, looking after themselves and others in sometimes very generous ways, from forgiveness to more practical ways that save and improve the lives of others[/Quote] As are most people of other religions/without religion. So, when even a Pope chucks in the towel, who's going to stand up for Christians, their values, and their way of life? Erm, Christians? I stand up for my values and religious leanings, do Christians need someone other than themselves to fight their battles for them? Is it that weak a religion that without someone to tell them what to do they fall at the first hurdle? That's not my experience of Christianity, the majority of Christians I know are perfectly capable of protecting themselves. Maybe your question refers to the special treatment Christianity gets in Britain and the fact that this priveledge is being (rightly imo) eradicated to produce a more inclusive society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumkin Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I find great solace in the rise of Islam, all under one roof, it's the way forwards!! So women does as they are told and man does what he wants, is that what you want for your daughter ? If I had a daughter, Allah would protect and provide. Islam instructs all men to protect all women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I could agree with that if you used the word "some". Some Christians don't have an ethos of being nice to others. To give an example of my own, when the prostitutes were being murdered in Ipswich, a friend of mine's Christian mother told us that it was a good thing. It was God's plan to teach them a lesson. A lovely woman. I've made it very clear indeed that I'm talking about some christians. Posting again for the 3rd time- As I understand it, christians and the church are pretty much inseperable? Certainly, the OP was refering to the closing of churches, most of which are part of the established organised tradition which does include bishops etc. As I mentioned above, none of the threats the OP mentioned, seemed to be threats against people just being Christian. Like I said before- a person can be a Christian, be nice to his/her neighbours, have all the other Christian values etc, and be unaffected by churches closing, hymns not being sung in schools etc. I've no problem with Christians- as long as they're not the type who feel the need to inflict their beliefs or traditions on others: I've defended them many times in threads on this board. And, unlike several on this thread, my experience has been that, on the whole, Christians do tend to be nicer people than most atheists I encounter (obviously I'm talking there your average non-fundamentalist Christian). And, I would totally oppose any attempt to attack Christians and their rights to worship/believe- I just don't think that churches closing, moves to allow gay marriages, removal of hymns from school assemblies etc, are attacks on Christians. Also, like I said before, within that subset of christians, I'm referring only to the subset of christians that I've personally had experience of. I've worked around volunteer and charity groups in my life too. I've worked in animal welfare, sanctuaries and hospitals - they weren't set up by Christians. Some may have been Christian, I never asked, but it certainly wasn't motivated by it. However, I can agree that some services are provided by Christian charities. My grandfather recently came out of hospital and a nice Christian group visited and fitted him a handrail so he could stand up when he's getting off the loo. Like I said in my previous post, I'm talking about groups I've encountered, which tend to be community/youth groups/cubs/scouts etc; the vast majority of which are set up, or run, or facilitated by christians, who, moveover, seem to be motivated to give their time as a direct result of their christian ethos. I really can't say anything about animal welfare groups, not having worked with them, but, it kind of makes sense that christians would gravitate to groups that benefit humans, as christian altruism tends to be directed towards people rather than animals? : Baden Powell wasn't a man to admire. Never said he was. Bit of a strawman there. All I said was that scouts/cubs/guides groups tend to be run by volunteer christians. : Athiests don't do any volunteer work or help in their community either? Do you hold that position? No, of course not, that's why I didn't make that claim. All I said was that in my experience of working with community groups/youth groups/cubs etc, the vast majority where run by christians. Maybe there are community/youth groups run by atheists? I've not encountered any personally, that doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm pretty confident in saying that they would be a minority when it comes to youth/community groups though. Which isn't surprising, given that duty to others is a fundamental part of christian teachings, whereas atheism, as atheists are very fond of pointing out, is simply an absence of belief in supernatural/unprovable entities. Surely, when an atheist is being altruistic, it's because they are an altruistic person (who also happen to be atheist), whereas, when a christian is altruistic, it could well be a consequence of their christian altruistic beliefs? I'll happily point out, that it's not all positive: eg it was christian altruistic beliefs that led to the destruction of multiple indigenous cultures through out the world when various misdirected missionary projects moved in. : You're taking a very odd position here. You've also used the term "set up". I've never set up a group in my life. I have, however, picked litter, walked dogs, raised money for charity, sold raffle tickets for St Luke's. I did all of that without the aim of pushing my unbelief in God. I used it because some of the groups I spoke of were 'set up' (by christians). Well done for your charitable efforts- clearly you're an altruistic person presumably you don't belief that you're altruistic because you're an atheist- like you say, it wasn't motivated by your unbelief in God. Christians (some christians), in contrast, are altruistic because they believe it's Gods will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Who's going to protect the Christians? Nobody. Christianity is on the decline in Europe and yet on the rise in the 3rd world so it will probably even itself out, now go figure why its happening that way. Because poor uneducated people are far more likely to believe in nonsense superstitions relatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Perhaps these nice people will pop over and protect our beleaguered Christians. Christian Gun Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I've made it very clear indeed that I'm talking about some christians. Posting again for the 3rd time- Also, like I said before, within that subset of christians, I'm referring only to the subset of christians that I've personally had experience of. So when your sample is made up of pretty much only people from charitable organisations you've been involved with of course they're generally going to be nice people! Duh! So when you make a statement about Christians 'on the whole' and 'most atheists' like you did: my experience has been that, on the whole, Christians do tend to be nicer people than most atheists I encounter (obviously I'm talking there your average non-fundamentalist Christian). People are generally gonna pick you up on it. Whih one are you talking about? Your average non-fundamentalist Christian? Christians on the whole? Or the small subset of Christians you have worked with over they years? Or do you assume that the Christians you've worked with form a representative sample of any of those other 2 groups? Because I highly doubt they do, I know lots of people who call themselves Christian, and only a few of them ever do any charity work. Not that the Christians I know form a representative sample of Christians either. Also that bit in brackets is a complete cheat, why do you get to exclude them from your sample and yet include the atheists you don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think because in this country church and state are intertwined, C of E is sort of our default setting and we don't think about it that much. We no longer protect it or realise how much it underpins much of our way of life. Yet in the face of much more aggresive, proactive religions, even aggresive atheism, it needs protecting or it is in danger of being replaced with someting we don't want. We'll miss it when it's gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think because in this country church and state are intertwined, C of E is sort of our default setting and we don't think about it that much. We no longer protect it or realise how much it underpins much of our way of life. What do you mean by that? (in bold) Yet in the face of much more aggresive, proactive religions, even aggresive atheism, it needs protecting or it is in danger of being replaced with someting we don't want. What would that "something" be? We'll miss it when it's gone... A few might ---------- Post added 13-02-2013 at 13:15 ---------- Most importantly, what exactly do you want Christians protecting from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Because poor uneducated people are far more likely to believe in nonsense superstitions relatively. Got it in one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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