Race wars, is it coming to a town near you?

[janie48]

And your baptism is relevant to the point I made how exactly? I said nothing about being baptized.

 

His anti-semitism was very Catholic.

 

Also, if what you say is true how come his entire life he enjoyed relatively good relations with the Vatican and was never any talk of excommunication?

 

It goes further than that in fact, the Pope started a yearly tradition when he sent priests to Hitler to give him birthday greetings. And you can't argue that he was ignorant of what was going on in Germany because he'd spent years there as the Church's ambassador during the time Hitler came to power.

 

Let's not forget that it wasn't until 1964 that the Catholic church finally changed it's policy and stopped officially blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus.

 

Also, there are plenty of Catholics who don't attend mass, are you really saying only people who attend Church are Christians? Because that's a very old fashioned attitude.

 

What Hitler was certainly not, was an atheist: “’We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out’.”

 

You know very well that Hitler was a Psychopathic maniac (not always recognisable in the early stages) and therefore clever enough to fool the masses into believing all the lies he told.

Its a slur on the whole German nation (Lutheran and Catholic) and a slur on all the Catholics of other nations who sacrificed their lives fighting Germany to insinuate that they were all anti-semetic.

 

 

What you fail to mention with your prejudice against Christians (more especially towards Catholicism it would seem) is that Hitler had ordered bibles to be removed from schools and for them to be replaced with Mein Kampf,was that something you would expect a christian to do? Was the order to have thousands of Catholic priests murdered evidence he was pro-catholic? We know about the part sucess of this plan from the facts.We know that close to 6 million jews went to the gas chambers and that thousands of Catholics did also.

 

Before you attempt to spread prejudice please examine the facts from another perspective also.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/catholic-martyrs-of-the-holocaust

 

And remember a great many Europeans at that time were terrified of the spread of Communism,one of the reasons why many of them initially were blind and failed to see that an evil tyranny as bad was about to become so powerful.

[LeMaquis]

He didnt mention much about the Jewish religion either. He kept those comments for his close associates and was content to let his number one lackey Heinrich Himmler do all the dirty work

 

Hitler published Mein Kampf in 1925, eight years before he came to power, in which he underlined that in his opinion, Communism and Judaism were the main twin evils. If you think that Hitler kept his anti-semitism to himself then maybe you also think that Osama Bin Laden kept quiet about his anti-West leanings.

[Harleyman]

Hitler published Mein Kampf in 1925, eight years before he came to power, in which he underlined that in his opinion, Communism and Judaism were the main twin evils. If you think that Hitler kept his anti-semitism to himself then maybe you also think that Osama Bin Laden kept quiet about his anti-West leanings.

 

But he was definitely not a Catholic or even a Christian for that matter and that was the point I was trying to make.

 

Stalin claimed to be a Communist but he wasnt a Communist. There is nothing iin the Communist Manifesto that says anything about sending milions of people who did not fit in with his views to certain death in slave labour camps but he did anyway.

[Glamrocker]

Christianity also said Thou Shalt Not Kill but Hitler was Christian.

And your point is,Im afraid your friend Mr Schicklegruber doesnt hold the monopoly on killing ,thousands, nay millions of christians have broke that commandment so what makes Hitler unique in your (blinkered)vision

[flamingjimmy]

You know very well that Hitler was a Psychopathic maniac (not always recognisable in the early stages) and therefore clever enough to fool the masses into believing all the lies he told.

Its a slur on the whole German nation (Lutheran and Catholic) and a slur on all the Catholics of other nations who sacrificed their lives fighting Germany to insinuate that they were all anti-semetic.

It would be, if I had done that. I didn't, so it's ok.

 

What I did do was to put some of the blame for German antisemitism on the Catholic church, which as I have pointed out, maintained as its official position until 1964 that the Jews were to blame for the death of Jesus, and maintained friendly relations with Hitler.

 

Nowhere have I said or implied that every German was an antisemite.

 

Seeing as you mention the Lutheran tradition need I remind you that Martin Luther himself wrote a hugely influential treatise called "On the Jews and their lies" which calls for almost exactly what Hitler did. The Nazis even displayed copies of it at their rallies. It was undeniably influential, undeniably Christian, and undeniably antisemitic.

 

What you fail to mention with your prejudice against Christians (more especially towards Catholicism it would seem) is that Hitler had ordered bibles to be removed from schools and for them to be replaced with Mein Kampf,was that something you would expect a christian to do?

Not necessarily, but he was a fascist, and wanted all power in his hands. He didn't want people's loyalties split between the state and the church, but that doesn't say much about his religion.

 

Also, lets not forget that Mein Kampf was not a secular document, it even contains one of the quotes I gave earlier

 

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

 

Here's another snippet:

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."

 

He was certainly trying to diminish the power of the church but what he was not doing was trying to eliminate all religion.

 

Was the order to have thousands of Catholic priests murdered evidence he was pro-catholic?

I haven't said anything about his policies, it is entirely possible to be a catholic and also persecute Catholics.

 

And remember a great many Europeans at that time were terrified of the spread of Communism,one of the reasons why many of them initially were blind and failed to see that an evil tyranny as bad was about to become so powerful.

This doesn't take away from the influence that both the Catholic and Lutheran traditions had on German antisemitism.

[Harleyman]

And your baptism is relevant to the point I made how exactly? I said nothing about being baptized.

 

His anti-semitism was very Catholic.

 

Also, if what you say is true how come his entire life he enjoyed relatively good relations with the Vatican and was never any talk of excommunication?

 

It goes further than that in fact, the Pope started a yearly tradition when he sent priests to Hitler to give him birthday greetings. And you can't argue that he was ignorant of what was going on in Germany because he'd spent years there as the Church's ambassador during the time Hitler came to power.

 

Let's not forget that it wasn't until 1964 that the Catholic church finally changed it's policy and stopped officially blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus.

 

Also, there are plenty of Catholics who don't attend mass, are you really saying only people who attend Church are Christians? Because that's a very old fashioned attitude.

 

What Hitler was certainly not, was an atheist: “’We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out’.”

 

That was obviously the case of the wolf donning the sheep's hide before going among the flock. He was the the Supreme Maestro of BS lying rhetoric in furtherance of his aims. He wasnt an athiest, neither a Christian just a power hungry demagogue who knew how to prey on people's emotions

 

 

He certainly wasnt interested in rearing a nation of church going youth. Only very large future SS divisions brainwashed to kill en masse when required.

 

These warriors may have swallowed his garbage about being Aryan Christians but it's plain to even a simpleton that any similarity between them and a true caring Christian is just plain laughable

[flamingjimmy]

But he was definitely not a Catholic or even a Christian for that matter and that was the point I was trying to make

 

Would you say Martin Luther was a Christian?

[Harleyman]

Would you say Martin Luther was a Christian?

 

He claimed to be. But claiming to be and actually being are two different things

[janie48]

It would be, if I had done that. I didn't, so it's ok.

 

What I did do was to put some of the blame for German antisemitism on the Catholic church, which as I have pointed out, maintained as its official position until 1964 that the Jews were to blame for the death of Jesus, and maintained friendly relations with Hitler.

 

Nowhere have I said or implied that every German was an antisemite.

 

Seeing as you mention the Lutheran tradition need I remind you that Martin Luther himself wrote a hugely influential treatise called "On the Jews and their lies" which calls for almost exactly what Hitler did. The Nazis even displayed copies of it at their rallies. It was undeniably influential, undeniably Christian, and undeniably antisemitic.

 

Not necessarily, but he was a fascist, and wanted all power in his hands. He didn't want people's loyalties split between the state and the church, but that doesn't say much about his religion.

 

Also, lets not forget that Mein Kampf was not a secular document, it even contains one of the quotes I gave earlier

 

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

 

Here's another snippet:

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."

 

He was certainly trying to diminish the power of the church but what he was not doing was trying to eliminate all religion.

 

I haven't said anything about his policies, it is entirely possible to be a catholic and also persecute Catholics.

 

This doesn't take away from the influence that both the Catholic and Lutheran traditions had on German antisemitism.

Some communists spread false rumours about the church after the war,some of those were Jews who had an agenda.Facts have revealed that the Pope at the time of Hitler sent secret instructions that jews were to be hidden in convents and monastaries.Many Jews have stated how their lives were saved by the intervention of Catholics,who were risking their own lives in doing this.

 

Its been widely acknowledged that many lies have been spread,and that there were thousands of Jewish lives saved by the church. I'm not denying that all catholics were guiltless or that Christian history hasn't been guilty of antisemitism all through its period that would stupid.

Its just that certain comments can influence some people into developing certain prejudices,and coming from a catholic and protestant background myself i'm very well aware of the misunderstandings that can produce.

 

I realise you were not suggesting that all Germans were antisemite i shouldn't have implied that,but i do think you are over-exaggerating somewhat especially with this notion that Hitler was a true christian,he was a mad manipulative opportunist who wanted nothing more then power over the world,and one of the ways of acchieving that was firstly to get the Lutheran and Catholic church on his side,which is why his statements were always contradictory,later his loud ranting speeches were just the same.

 

The Jewish Rabbi David G Danin has written a book titled "The Myth of Hitlers Pope" refuting the allegations about the Pope.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/gaynor/050730

[flamingjimmy]

He claimed to be. But claiming to be and actually being are two different things

So the founder of a Christian sect with approximately 75 million adherents isn't a Christian?