All the 'good' people are criminals

[Marx]

Hey anyone hear the Radio 4 piece on Indian politics today? One third of their politicians are awaiting trial for, or have been charged with, murder, gang rape, extortion and other bad stuff. Makes our MPs look like model citizens.

[Mister M]

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Do you think so?

 

I think our ingrained deference to the upper classes and the old boy network allows them to get away with murder.

 

We can't do anything about it, it's not lack of motivation...

 

There is a mistrust of authority figures upto a point (not nearly as much as I'd like).

For example I always find it heartening when I read about some bloated American plutocrat (almost always American), who complains about the 'British attitude to wealth' as compared to the American attitude.

The complaint being that if a rich man had a car the American would say 'hey congratulations I'd like one of those' and revere the rich man. In Britain however people are said to be so riven with envy that we'd scratch the car out of spite. It's known as the 'Tall Poppy syndrome'. The only thing wrong with the theory is the belief that people are motivated by envy, that's wishful thinking on behalf of the upper classes.

 

But yes there is an old boys network and a rancid class system and has been for centuries. Margaret Thatcher is mistakenly believed to have rid the country of such networks with her meritocratic zeal but the fact is Britain is much more of a class ridden and divided country since she left power than before she took power.

[Anna B]

Hey anyone hear the Radio 4 piece on Indian politics today? One third of their politicians are awaiting trial for, or have been charged with, murder, gang rape, extortion and other bad stuff. Makes our MPs look like model citizens.

 

had our MPs been charged with fraud as they should have been after the expenses scandal, half of ours would be in jail...

[Harleyman]

There is a mistrust of authority figures upto a point (not nearly as much as I'd like).

For example I always find it heartening when I read about some bloated American plutocrat (almost always American), who complains about the 'British attitude to wealth' as compared to the American attitude.

The complaint being that if a rich man had a car the American would say 'hey congratulations I'd like one of those' and revere the rich man. In Britain however people are said to be so riven with envy that we'd scratch the car out of spite. It's known as the 'Tall Poppy syndrome'. The only thing wrong with the theory is the belief that people are motivated by envy, that's wishful thinking on behalf of the upper classes.

 

But yes there is an old boys network and a rancid class system and has been for centuries. Margaret Thatcher is mistakenly believed to have rid the country of such networks with her meritocratic zeal but the fact is Britain is much more of a class ridden and divided country since she left power than before she took power.

 

The difference very simple. The American attitude is strive to attain the wealth and success that others have while the British attitude is "drag him back down to our level and tax the greedy sinner until the pips squeak".

 

It is envy and resentment. No other words for it. How many people on here have posted their opinions that wealth should be taken from those who have it and redistributed amongst those who dont? It's probably a prevailing attitude commonly found in Sheffield and other northern cities where there is still some sentiment for the days of far left socialism and Marxist dogma.

[mjw47]

have to agree with harleyman on this one. there is a definite level of envy & begrudgery evident at times in this country. there is the feeling that if someone is wealthy they dont deserve it & have cheated in some way in order to obtain their wealth.

obviously in some cases this is true but most people worked hard for it & as far as i'm concerned even the ones who inherited it are entitled to it provided they dont believe it makes them superior in any way to the rest of us.

also agree with Anna B regarding the MP expenses issue. i worked in an industry where if you were caught fiddling your expenses you lost your job & would never be employed in that industry again. if the amount in question was high enough the police were involved.

i find it incredible that the people entrusted with running the country are held to a lower level of trust.

[Anna B]

have to agree with harleyman on this one. there is a definite level of envy & begrudgery evident at times in this country. there is the feeling that if someone is wealthy they dont deserve it & have cheated in some way in order to obtain their wealth.

obviously in some cases this is true but most people worked hard for it & as far as i'm concerned even the ones who inherited it are entitled to it provided they dont believe it makes them superior in any way to the rest of us.

also agree with Anna B regarding the MP expenses issue. i worked in an industry where if you were caught fiddling your expenses you lost your job & would never be employed in that industry again. if the amount in question was high enough the police were involved.

i find it incredible that the people entrusted with running the country are held to a lower level of trust.

 

I think part of the difference in attitude is because in America they have the American dream that anyone can make it, no aristocracy, and they have a more classless society than here. Indeed a lot of Americans have lived the dream and done well starting from nothing.

 

Over here people need to often make it through who they know rather than what they know. Just look at the fashion pages of a magazine; Lulu Guiness for example, makes (imo unexceptional) handbags; would she have made it if she hadn't been a member of the Guiness family empire?

The statistics prove that the majority who make it to the top in this country are from private schools. It's not just the education, it's the contacts. There are exceptions of course, but not nearly as many as there should be statistically speaking. In fact many try and cover up their less than humble beginnings.

 

Social mobility is almost at a standstill in this country.

[Harleyman]

The world is changing rapidly. The future belongs more than ever to innovation, private enterprise and gaining knowledge in the latest technological advances through learning. China and India are already world economic powers in the making and in the next two decades Africa and Brazil will also begin to emerge.

 

Keep up with the changes taking place or get left behind.

[Anna B]

The world is changing rapidly. The future belongs more than ever to innovation, private enterprise and gaining knowledge in the latest technological advances through learning. China and India are already world economic powers in the making and in the next two decades Africa and Brazil will also begin to emerge.

 

Keep up with the changes taking place or get left behind.

 

Innovation and ideas are what the British are renowned for. But they also need investment and that's where the British get let down.

[mjw47]

agreed, the class system in this country is detrimental to the long term interests of the country.

 

for instance the education system. only 7% of children in this country are privately educated but they hold over 50% of all top jobs.

it seems to me that one of the main problems is that virtually every single person in a position to take decisions which would improve the state education system would be acting against their own self interest to do so.

these people are in a financial position that ensures that they can either pay for private education for their children or live in a catchment area for the best state schools.

 

recent events have shown what happens when the self interest of 'the great & the good' comes into play.

 

there are children living in deprived areas in this country who are far more intelligent than the children of cabinet ministers. they know this & are not prepared to provide an equal opportunity.

 

the fact that providing that opportunity would be to the long term interest of the country means absolutely nothing to them.

[Anna B]

agreed, the class system in this country is detrimental to the long term interests of the country.

 

for instance the education system. only 7% of children in this country are privately educated but they hold over 50% of all top jobs.

it seems to me that one of the main problems is that virtually every single person in a position to take decisions which would improve the state education system would be acting against their own self interest to do so.

these people are in a financial position that ensures that they can either pay for private education for their children or live in a catchment area for the best state schools.

 

recent events have shown what happens when the self interest of 'the great & the good' comes into play.

 

there are children living in deprived areas in this country who are far more intelligent than the children of cabinet ministers. they know this & are not prepared to provide an equal opportunity.

 

the fact that providing that opportunity would be to the long term interest of the country means absolutely nothing to them.

 

Good post. Totally agree.

 

And it's not just top jobs, but right across the arts as well; theatre, music, entertainment etc. are all over represented by private and public school types.