What does unnatural actually mean?

[jfish1936]

When people talk about "unnatural" they generally mean something they personally disapprove.

Thus, it was felt "unnatural" to educate women, because the male authority figures saw them escaping male dominance.

(lots more examples)

[Phanerothyme]

Where do we draw the line on what we view as natural or unnatural? For instance(and I'm only using this as an example, I 'm not in any way against IVF)- Is it natural or unnatural when a couple who are unable to conceive naturally conceive through fertility treatment? I often hear it argued- "If nature didn't intend for it to happen then we shouldn't be meddling with it, then on the flip side the counter argument could be that anything we do as to natural because we ourselves are a product of nature. So Where do we draw the line on this?

 

 

I agree with jfish1936 above.

 

Essentially, everything is "natural". Cities and Anthills - same thing, natural artifacts. Space travel? Natural. Transgenic gene splicing? Natural? Supersonic air travel? Natural.

[llamatron]

I wasn't making a point..I was asking a question.. another one now..which animals in the wild make a habit of adoption...? Is it a general species thing or is it usually an individual making an "out of character" choice?

 

Lots of species do it, Penguins is a definite example in the wild.

 

Farmers and "wild" animal keepers do it with loads of species just by introducing an unwanted baby to a childless adult. Gay animals have been know to do it. Even interspecies adoptions occur between animals (although in that case I am not talking about giving milk).

[Waldo]

One of those fuzzy, umbrella terms that can mean different things. For me, I would equate natural with uncontrived. That is, not involving calculating thought processes. That is just one (my) way of diffenentiating between natural and unnatural. From a wider perspective, I would agree, that all phenomena are natural, the distinction is in reality, only in our own minds (as with most, if not all, distinctions).

[Lockjaw]

If you look at the base compounds yes, but they will never miraculously come together to form the complex materials we create.

 

When was the last naturally occurring silicon chip found or plastics for that matter?

 

We are natural so every thing we make is natural.

 

There is nothing miraculous or unnatural about complex materials. We simply move stuff around like beavers or birds do.

[medusa]

You get people saying that all sorts of stuff is unnatural, or that they don't want chemicals in their food.

 

I just recognise the fact that these people are morons and move on.

 

So what do the people who don't want chemicals in their food think that their food is MADE of?

 

There is no such thing as living an entirely 'natural' life because even people who grow all of their own food organically use metal tools to cultivate them and wear clothing that has been made using some sort of machine. It's also likely that they have glass windows in their houses and similar.

 

I've got a big bugbear with the whole 'natural is safe and healthy' thing anyway. Arsenic is natural, and so are strychnine, taxine, deadly nightshade, aconitum and a whole load of other compounds, along with Yersinia pestis, Clostridium tetani and Clostridium perfringens.

[aliceBB]

But what doesn't exist in nature, Wex?

 

We are part of nature so anything we do exists in nature.

 

Everything exists in nature.

 

You are confusing nature with human existence.

 

I challenge you to find false fingernails in nature, or a tin of baked beans, or a Sooty glove puppet.

[danot]

You are confusing nature with human existence.

 

I challenge you to find false fingernails in nature, or a tin of baked beans, or a Sooty glove puppet.

 

what about a bee hive? Or a birds nest? Are they not the product of some other product of nature? If yes- wouldn't it be just as natural for humans to build homes for themselves? And if yes again- wouldn't it be just as natural to make false nails and tins of baked beans for ourselves also?

[Lockjaw]

You are confusing nature with human existence.

 

Errrr, no. Human existence is part of nature.

 

 

I challenge you to find false fingernails in nature, or a tin of baked beans, or a Sooty glove puppet.

 

Can't help you with the false nails but we have plenty of bean tins in the kitchen and more glove puppets than you could shake a ****ty stick at.

 

Each and every one of them made by humans.

 

Natural humans.

 

Natural humans moving natural stuff around.

[jfish1936]

In the "Prince Roger" series of SciFi books, David Weber and John Ringo cast as villains the "Saints", a political group who believe eveything should be returned to its "natural" state. When they take over a territory, the inhabitants are forced to work on demolishing cities, returning the land to its previous state, and living by hunting and gathering. Most of them die! the rest have to limit family size severely.

However, the leaders of the movement maintain their own mod-cons, and have lots of children; they, after all, know how to preserve nature!