sheff1johnny Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I just had a thought, why the esa50 is a joke. Atos will only make money if you have to have a medical, so naturally everyone no matter how ill will be sent for a medical. Why shouldn't an independant body read the form, and decide if you need a medical or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaf andy Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 my father-in-law has just had his decision overturned, without having to go to a hearing. this was mostly due to the well written letter my OH sent disputing the decision of the under-qualified person who deemed he was able to use a keyboard and mouse with hands that are constantly shaking so much that a cuppa becomes a shower. another victory for common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheff1johnny Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 why not put your appeal in as soon as you have your medical, 1, it'd get the ball rolling. if you see a nurse you are virtually guaranteed too fail the medical as the doctors cherry pick the easy claimants: see evidence below: Ex Nurse speaks out against atos: I resigned from ATOS in 2012, As a nurse, I was taught to care and be compassionate about the people I was in contact with. This was not the case with Atos. It was very much a target driven role and you were under constant pressure to meet these targets. We had to see a minimum of 6 clients per day, some nurses were managing 10 and I often wondered how. I was warned, on a number of occasions, about this. If another nurse asked for help, I was more than happy to help or discuss a difficult case. My manager had a firm, but polite, word with me in a quiet corner, and reminded me of my role, which was to meet targets, not have general chit chat with colleagues. We were not allowed to offer any advice to our clients and we were not supposed to engage in a conversation, unless it was about the assessment. This was extremely hard to avoid, especially with a client with learning difficulties, who would often love to chat! The doctors would ‘cherry pick’ the easy clients, as they were paid per case and often saw, on average, 14 cases per day. Very good, considering they worked office hours. We were monitored closely on how many clients we put into Support Group . If our totals were above the national average, we would have to ask an ‘experienced’ member of staff for permission to put a client into a support group, even if it was plainly obvious they could not return to work. Those members of staff who had a low number of support group additions, were praised. I assessed a client with mental health issues who I entered into the support group. I was so concerned about her I stayed with her, in the waiting room, until a family member came to collect her to take her home. I was instructed to attend a meeting with my manager and was given a verbal warning for costing Atos money – when I asked how this was possible, I was informed that during the time I was with this client in the waiting room, I could have assessed somebody else. I assessed a client with visual problems, due to her diabetes, who could not read 16 point print, nor could she see hazards in the street. Although not registered blind, she was under the care of a consultant, was receiving treatment and needed constant support from her family. Although there was not a suitable support group for her, I put her in a higher group and recommended she was recalled in 18 months, after she had received treatment from her consultant, to assess her condition. I was instructed, by my manager, to downgrade her. I was told to add her to a lower group and recall her in 6 months. I strongly disagreed, due to her current condition and underlying medical problems, but was told, in no uncertain terms, not to question my managers judgement. It was at this point I decided to resign. I could not live with the knowledge of what I was doing and the effect this could have on somebody’s life. Although there are a number of people who are more than capable of work, the majority are genuine, sick people who need our help, not to be demoralised in this way. I saw so many people who would cry in front of me, because they want to work so much, but couldn’t. Atos Healthcare do not care about their staff and more importantly, do not care about their clients. They are more interested in making money and I believe they should be stripped of this contact with DWP. This is not a job any nurse should do, if their NMC registration means anything to them. J. Stoker. RGN http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2013/01/31/ex-atos-nurse-reveals-the-real-inside-story/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 why not put your appeal in as soon as you have your medical, 1, it'd get the ball rolling. if you see a nurse you are virtually guaranteed too fail the medical as the doctors cherry pick the easy claimants: see evidence below: Ex Nurse speaks out against atos: I resigned from ATOS in 2012, As a nurse, I was taught to care and be compassionate about the people I was in contact with. This was not the case with Atos. It was very much a target driven role and you were under constant pressure to meet these targets. We had to see a minimum of 6 clients per day, some nurses were managing 10 and I often wondered how. I was warned, on a number of occasions, about this. If another nurse asked for help, I was more than happy to help or discuss a difficult case. My manager had a firm, but polite, word with me in a quiet corner, and reminded me of my role, which was to meet targets, not have general chit chat with colleagues. We were not allowed to offer any advice to our clients and we were not supposed to engage in a conversation, unless it was about the assessment. This was extremely hard to avoid, especially with a client with learning difficulties, who would often love to chat! The doctors would ‘cherry pick’ the easy clients, as they were paid per case and often saw, on average, 14 cases per day. Very good, considering they worked office hours. We were monitored closely on how many clients we put into Support Group . If our totals were above the national average, we would have to ask an ‘experienced’ member of staff for permission to put a client into a support group, even if it was plainly obvious they could not return to work. Those members of staff who had a low number of support group additions, were praised. I assessed a client with mental health issues who I entered into the support group. I was so concerned about her I stayed with her, in the waiting room, until a family member came to collect her to take her home. I was instructed to attend a meeting with my manager and was given a verbal warning for costing Atos money – when I asked how this was possible, I was informed that during the time I was with this client in the waiting room, I could have assessed somebody else. I assessed a client with visual problems, due to her diabetes, who could not read 16 point print, nor could she see hazards in the street. Although not registered blind, she was under the care of a consultant, was receiving treatment and needed constant support from her family. Although there was not a suitable support group for her, I put her in a higher group and recommended she was recalled in 18 months, after she had received treatment from her consultant, to assess her condition. I was instructed, by my manager, to downgrade her. I was told to add her to a lower group and recall her in 6 months. I strongly disagreed, due to her current condition and underlying medical problems, but was told, in no uncertain terms, not to question my managers judgement. It was at this point I decided to resign. I could not live with the knowledge of what I was doing and the effect this could have on somebody’s life. Although there are a number of people who are more than capable of work, the majority are genuine, sick people who need our help, not to be demoralised in this way. I saw so many people who would cry in front of me, because they want to work so much, but couldn’t. Atos Healthcare do not care about their staff and more importantly, do not care about their clients. They are more interested in making money and I believe they should be stripped of this contact with DWP. This is not a job any nurse should do, if their NMC registration means anything to them. J. Stoker. RGN http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2013/01/31/ex-atos-nurse-reveals-the-real-inside-story/ I hope you have sent a copy of this informative post to your MP, or even to the newspapers. People need to know what is happening. I hope you are not suffering financially for sticking to your morals, but well done for taking a stand. ---------- Post added 12-05-2013 at 14:48 ---------- My dad was one disabled person who appealed. It took a year to go before the court who overturned ATOS and awarded him full ESA. It's now 9 weeks since that decision and he's not seen a single penny in payment however the temp payments they were paying him (70/week) ceased immediately. ATOS/DWP are dragging their heels in sorting out the claim. It's digusting. And now with the emergency legistlation rushed/hushed through by IDS a few weeks ago (brought by the workfare debacle but covers ATOS too) there will be NO back-paid payments for those who's appeals are succesful. This is scandalous. People will have debts to pay.. How did you find out ? Do you have any verification or quotable legislation to back it up? It needs to be changed. Pronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheff1johnny Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I hope you are not suffering financially for sticking to your morals, but well done for taking a stand. ---------- Post added 12-05-2013 at 14:48 ---------- This is scandalous. People will have debts to pay.. How did you find out ? Do you have any verification or quotable legislation to back it up? It needs to be changed. Pronto. Its not me, by the way. It was a statement by an ex nurse, who for obvious reasons want to stay annonymous. I just thought it ought to be boought to people's attention. I've got to send my form off, I am sending it recorded delivery, I have asked for a doctor, and it to be recorded and a home visit, I know if I didn't send the form recorded they'd pretend they lost it. Another thing the form almosts make you feel like you have to give a phone number as there is no option for not doing so. I just put not applicable, and said all contact has to be by mail. I'm already wondering if to put my appeal in before I have the medical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Can I just clarify the thread title? Should it not read something more like "Rise in ATOS Decisions being overturned upon appeal?" The appeals are successful and not being overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I hope you have sent a copy of this informative post to your MP, or even to the newspapers. People need to know what is happening. I hope you are not suffering financially for sticking to your morals, but well done for taking a stand. ---------- Post added 12-05-2013 at 14:48 ---------- This is scandalous. People will have debts to pay.. How did you find out ? Do you have any verification or quotable legislation to back it up? It needs to be changed. Pronto. This is the original story when it only related to back-payments owed to jobseekers when IDS's workfare programme was deemed unlawful. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/19/labour-rush-benefit-rebates-poundland But the legislation isn't limited to just JSA repayments, it's a 'catch-all' bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheff1johnny Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 more evdience: Exclusive: ‘Sick firm told us to catch out disabled people' The ruthless Tory drive to remove thousands of seriously ill and disabled people from benefits was exposed this week as a nurse employed to assess them spoke out to Socialist Worker. Jean, a former employee of Atos Healthcare in Scotland, exposed a process she described as a “sham”. Atos is a multinational firm contracted by the Department for Work and Pensions to screen patients. “I worked for Atos as a ‘disability analyst’ thinking I would be helping vulnerable people to access their benefits,” she said. “I soon discovered that nothing could be further from the truth. The rules laid down by the bosses are designed to catch people out.” Jean says that anyone deemed capable of looking after themselves or a child, however difficult they find it, is judged to be capable of work and taken off benefits. “If you turn up to your claimant interview in nice clothes, you’ve failed,” she says. “If you turn up washed and with your hair neat, you’ve failed. “And, if you turn up with your kids, you’ve failed.” She described the way that claimants with serious lung *diseases were regularly assessed as capable of work because they could sit in front of a computer and type. “We’re not supposed to ask about how they would get to a workplace, or whether they have special medical equipment that would make daily travel difficult.” Bosses are so keen to process claimants quickly that staff are given just 45 minutes to assess people and write up a report about them, says Jean. Multiple “While training, we worked with actors who pretended to have just one serious illness. We then had to assess and report on them. “But in real life, people often have multiple health problems. “How are you supposed to assess all of them, and the impact they have on a person, and then write up a full report in just 45 minutes? You can’t. “And, because it is not done properly, thousands of people are losing the benefits they are entitled to.” After more than 20 years in the NHS caring for patients, Jean says she could not carry on working for Atos and left shortly after she started. “The job was making me sick,” she said. “It’s against my principles to treat people with long term illnesses in such a disgusting way, so I had to give it up. “People go into those interviews and talk openly to you because you are a nurse and they trust you. “Then your skills are used against them, to take away their benefits and destroy their lives. “I can’t be a part of that.” ---------- Post added 13-05-2013 at 12:19 ---------- more evdience still: daily record: Nurse makes heartfelt apology after Atos forced her to trick disabled people out of benefits 24 Sep 2012 00:01 SCOTS nurse Joyce Drummond reveals how thousands of genuinely ill people were set up for a fall before they had even been assessed by benefits firm Atos. Joyce has not worked since the stress of her job at Atos A NURSE has revealed how her own life was ruined after under-fire benefits firm Atos forced her to “trick” disabled people out of cash. Joyce Drummond’s medical training meant she knew claimants were unfit to work. But she was told to mark people as fit if they could write or show up for an interview properly dressed. Eventually, Joyce was carpeted by bosses for being “too nice” to claimants. After five months, she was signed off with stress caused by “having to trick sick people out of their benefit”. She quit in July 2009 and hasn’t worked since. Joyce said candidates were marked down if they: *looked well-presented, with neat hair and make-up. *turned up with a toddler. *could sign the application form. Public fury is growing against Atos, who have assessed thousands of people with terminal illnesses as fit for work. And thousands with genuine chronic conditions have been dragged over the coals repeatedly by their inquisitors. Mum-of-one Joyce, from Mosspark, Glasgow, said Atos decision makers paid no attention to her professional clinical opinion and were only interested in cutting down the number of claimants. She reveals all the questions she was told to ask were loaded. Joyce said: “I stopped working for Atos three-and-a-half years ago but I still feel sick every time I think of those people deemed fit for work, when they quite clearly were incapable of doing so. “I apologise from the bottom of my heart to all those people I had to assess during my five months in the job but the decisions were out of my hands. “Once I realised how manipulative the assessment system was, I got out immediately. The stress of it all made me ill and I have not worked since.” Joyce, who worked as a staff nurse at the city’s Southern General for more than 20 years, added: “I only took the job so I could help vulnerable people get the benefits they needed. “But it wasn’t long before I realised no one cared about my professional clinical opinion. It broke my heart and I went home in tears every night. “People trusted me as a nurse and they confided in me. I felt I was having to stab them in the back.” Joyce said many claimants were set up for a fall even before they came into her office in Cadogan Street, Glasgow. She said: “If they made it in by themselves, that was seen as a sign they could function. “They also had to fill in a form. If they did it, it showed they could think, write and were capable of managing. “We also had to assess their appearance. If a woman was wearing make-up and was nicely dressed, she was deemed as functioning and capable. “If someone came in with a toddler in tow, they were doomed because if they could manage a child, they could surely work. “If someone had a pet, they were able to function and if they smiled while talking about a pet, I had to mark down that they smiled spontaneously and were therefore not depressed. “It was so unfair. There could be a very depressed or ill person sitting in front of me but on paper, thanks to the leading questions I had to ask, they could be judged fit to work.” Joyce says Atos bosses expected assessors to get through 10 cases in a day and reprimanded her for being too nice. She said: “It was impossible to do 10 a day as each claimant had a 44-minute slot. The medical director called me in one day and told me I was too nice. “I never found out how the decisions went but when I was doing the interview, I knew what the outcome would be. “Atos went by the philosophy that if you had a finger and could push a button, then you could work. Ridiculous.” Last week, a Panorama documentary revealed that each week between January and August last year, 32 people died who the Government had declared could be helped back into work. Appeals against decisions are costing the Government £50million a year. Atos have a £206million contract from the Department for Work and Pensions. The leader of the Scottish Parliament’s welfare reform committee pledged to dig deeper into the Atos scandal. Labour MSP Michael McMahon said: “There are serious questions about how Atos manage work and the growing reports of how they have caused distress to so many vulnerable people. “Whistleblowers have an important part to play in showing just how these reforms are hurting those in genuine need. My committee will continue to investigate the workings of Atos.” Atos last night defended their role in the benefits process. A spokeswoman said: “Our trained doctors, nurses and physiotherapists use their clinical knowledge and apply the Government’s policy and criteria to each assessment. “They make no decisions on benefit entitlement and look at each case on an individual basis. “We understand that applying for benefit can be a difficult time which is why we try to make the part of the process we’re responsible for as comfortable as possible.” ---------- Post added 17-05-2013 at 11:52 ---------- MORE DAMMING EVIDENCE Medical assessments of benefit applicants at Atos Healthcare were designed to incorrectly assess claimants as being fit for work, one of the company's former senior doctors has claimed. Greg Wood, a GP who worked at the company as a senior adviser on mental health issues, said claimants were not assessed in an "even-handed way", that evidence for claims was never put forward by the company for doctors to use, and that medical staff were told to change reports if they were too favourable to claimants. The doctor claimed he resigned in disgust at what was going on, saying that many doctors he had spoken to shared his concerns. "I think the Department for Work and Pensions is the real culprit here. It's the government training that makes Atos assessors do this." The work capability assessment is used for the government's employment and support allowance, a benefit paid to those too sick to work. Wood said that the assessors were trained in such a way that they expected claimants to score too few points to qualify for ESA, and to award points "begrudgingly". The attitude drilled into assessors "leans towards finding reasons not to award points", he claimed. The result was a bias against the disabled, he said. Last year the British Medical Association called for the tests to be scrapped to prevent harm to the most vulnerable people in society. Wood said that although his contract with Atos had a confidentiality clause, he was breaking it in the "public interest". He told the Guardian: "In my experience [Atos assessors] are not free to make independent recommendations, important evidence is frequently missing or never sought in the first place, medical knowledge is twisted and points are often wrongly withheld through the use of an erroneously high standard of proof." He said if Atos assessors "show deviation from the official line they are instructed to change the report. In about a quarter of assessments important documentary evidence such as the claimant's own GP assessment is missing but the assessments go ahead regardless." Although work capability tests were introduced by Labour in 2008, the coalition has rapidly expanded their use. Atos – which last year processed almost 20,000 incapacity benefit claimants a week – has faced criticism after it emerged that a third (37%) of decisions appealed against were successfully overturned. There have also been repeated claims that people with terminal cancer have been denied benefits as a result of Atos assessments and that the company sets out to strip people of benefits by making the tests arduous and degrading. Labour MP Tom Greatrex, who has campaigned for reforms to Atos and the fitness to work test, said: "These are very serious and shocking allegations which must be urgently looked at. I have written to the prime minister today asking him to personally order an investigation. "Those who can work should be helped into employment through effective back-to-work schemes, and those who can't through illness or disability should be supported. It's about helping people, not hounding them. Based on the evidence of Dr Wood this system is failing us all in the worst possible way." In a statement Atos said it "completely refuted allegations made by Dr Wood that Atos Healthcare acts inappropriately or unethically. We never ask healthcare professionals to make any changes to a report unless there are specific clinical quality issues identified within it. A report that may need to be revised could, for example, be one where there is insufficient justification recorded to support the advice given. "We do not deviate from government guidelines in our training. We do not have targets for getting people on or off benefits. We are a professional and ethical organisation which has carried out this work on behalf of the department for over a decade. "Atos Healthcare conducts its business based on a code of ethics and a strong legal compliance culture. Like any other organisation we are, quite properly, subject to scrutiny. However, Atos Healthcare will take appropriate legal steps to defend itself and its employees where false and damaging allegations are made." The Department for Work and Pensions said the claims had been "well-aired before". "A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken after a thorough assessment and consideration of all the supporting medical evidence provided by the claimant." "There are absolutely no targets regarding how many people should be found fit for work and since 2010 we have considerably improved the work capability assessment (WCA) process. The percentage of people entitled to employment and support allowance is now at its highest level with over half of people completing a WCA eligible for the benefit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheff1johnny Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Two win sickness benefit test legal challenge Those with mental health problems can struggle to gather the right evidence for the benefit test Continue reading the main story Related Stories MPs attack disability benefits tests Concession over disability benefits Minister clarifying disability plan Two people with mental health problems have won a legal challenge against the government tests for sickness benefit. Judges at the Upper Tribunal ruled the Work Capability Assessment puts people with mental illness, autism and learning difficulties at a substantial disadvantage. The process is too difficult for many to navigate, a court heard. The Department for Work and Pensions says there are safeguards in place and it will appeal against the ruling. Work Capability Assessment (WCA) tests, which measure a person's entitlement to Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) by determining whether they are fit for employment, were introduced in 2008 and are carried out on behalf of the government. The claimants alleged the system discriminated against them but the judges have asked to see further evidence before it can make a decision on this. 'Significant improvements' The court was told people who have conditions that mean they lack insight can struggle to gather the right documents needed for a successful claim, such as doctors' reports. Continue reading the main story “ Start Quote The judgment is a victory, not only for the two individuals involved in this case, but for thousands of people who have experienced additional distress and anxiety” Paul Farmer Mind The judgment was the result of a judicial review brought by two claimants with mental health problems, whose identities have been protected. Lawyers for the two argued that where a claim is from someone with a mental health problem, it should be the government's responsibility to seek additional medical evidence. UK charities Rethink Mental Illness, Mind and the National Autistic Society intervened in the case to provide evidence based on the experiences of their members and supporters. Almost 20,000 people are assessed each week for ESA - including those moving over from the old benefit system of Incapacity Benefit (IB) - in England, Wales and Scotland, DWP figures show. The benefits system in Northern Ireland is administered separately. More than a third of these people are claiming primarily for mental health problems, meaning tens of thousands of people each month are going through a process that puts them at a substantial disadvantage, the mental health charity said. Under the current system, evidence from a professional, such as a GP or social worker, is expected to be provided by claimants themselves. There is no obligation for the DWP to collect this evidence, even on behalf of the most vulnerable claimants - apart from in some rare cases. The charities involved in the case called on the government to suspend use of WCA tests for the people they help. Mind's chief executive Paul Farmer said: "The judgment is a victory, not only for the two individuals involved in this case, but for thousands of people who have experienced additional distress and anxiety because they have struggled through an assessment process which does not adequately consider the needs of people with mental health problems." The DWP said it wished to work with charities to "continually improve" the WCA for people with mental health problems. But a spokesperson said: "We disagree with today's ruling and intend to appeal. "We believe we have made - and continue to make - significant improvements to the WCA process for people with mental health conditions. The percentage of people with mental health conditions who go into the support group for ESA has more than tripled since 2010. The DWP said the tribunal had made clear that there are safeguards built in to the WCA process to help ESA claimants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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