stingray-man Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 In this particular case, because the offenders were children when they killed. The reality is that the great majority of murderers only ever kill once and that many of those can and do have the capacity to change and learn. Sentencing needs to reflect this and give people the opportunity to rebuild their lives when they've served their time. You haven't read the full post before replying though have you, they have taken someone's life, that person who they murdered does NOT get another chance so tell me why should the person that took that life ? Obviously talking about people who intended to kill here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckolad Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well I'm not completely wrong then am I, nowhere did I say make prison hell did I I simply said make prison harder for the very fact that these so called people committed a crime and they should have punishment for that crime not 3 square meals a day and a tv, their are hard working family's that don't even get that yet you can get it for being a criminal please explain where the rational thinking is in that .... Now your shying away from the debate and trying to change the discussion, but I will agree with you their are many factors into rehabilitating offenders, but that's not what I was talking about I was talking about harder prison time, and the fact that life should mean life no ifs buts or maybes, if you murder someone you take someone's child and brutalise and murder them then why should you have another chance ?, that's person you murdered does not get another chance, their family does not get another chance to be with that person? ---------- Post added 26-02-2013 at 17:43 ---------- Hold on I've just finished making some, now the torches Can't go unprepared now can we Thanks saves going to b n q! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 You haven't read the full post before replying though have you, they have taken someone's life, that person who they murdered does NOT get another chance so tell me why should the person that took that life ? Obviously talking about people who intended to kill here Because our system holds the notion that people have the capacity to feel sorrow and remorse for their actions and mend their errant ways. We are a nation that holds the ideas of forgiveness and redemption more valuable and worthy that vengeance and damnation. If a young man is mixed up with drugs and gangs for example and kills someone - I believe it's right that he should serve time in jail, but that he should be given every opportunity to sort his life out and improve himself while he's there. If it's apparent that he's changed and wants to make a new life for himself it would be grossly inhumane to keep him locked up till he's an old man. The proper thing to do is to return him to society at the end of his sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 You're completely wrong. The single most important factor in reducing reoffending is actually having a job to go to. There is solid evidence that this is the case. The tired old notion that the way to cut crime is by making prisons as hellish as possible is exactly that - a tired old notion, a myth. Which is a wonderful idea in an ideal world, unfortunately we live in the real world where everyone can't find employed, and it wouldn’t be fare to employ a criminal at the expense of someone that has done no wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray-man Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Because our system holds the notion that people have the capacity to feel sorrow and remorse for their actions and mend their errant ways. We are a nation that holds the ideas of forgiveness and redemption more valuable and worthy that vengeance and damnation. If a young man is mixed up with drugs and gangs for example and kills someone - I believe it's right that he should serve time in jail, but that he should be given every opportunity to sort his life out and improve himself while he's there. If it's apparent that he's changed and wants to make a new life for himself it would be grossly inhumane to keep him locked up till he's an old man. The proper thing to do is to return him to society at the end of his sentence. But what bout the person he killed ? What about that persons family ? I have a wife and children to care for, if some little druggie came and killed me because I wouldnt hand him my phone then what would my family do ? My wife would lose her husband and my children a father how would my family survive ?he then is serving 10 years in prison and getting a new life when he comes out, how does that repay the amount of damage he has done to a whole family ? How would that be fair me my wife and children have done no wrong and a law abiding citizens so how is it fair he gets it all but we lose it all ? Not much common sense in that or rational thinking IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Not much common sense in that or rational thinking IMO Irrespective of how the offender is treated the victim is dead...you can scream till your lungs burst..it wont bring your loss back...or is that not rational? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray-man Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 But I haven't hidden..I'm actually confronting you and your reasoning..maybe that's what is upsetting you. We used to lock up children for stealing an apple and force them to work 12 hours a day..it never stopped the kids from re-offending. We as a civilised society obviously drew a few conclusions from our past and moved on. You it seems want to turn the clock back. Yes I'm sat here really upset, no I never said any of those things,if you could put your reading specs on I stated we need harder prison time, when they are locked away they should come out wishing to never go back not running to the nearest shop and pinching what they can get in their pockets. Are you ready to add anything or just carry on confronting me and upsetting me and generally talking rubbish ---------- Post added 26-02-2013 at 18:38 ---------- Irrespective of how the offender is treated the victim is dead...you can scream till your lungs burst..it wont bring your loss back...or is that not rational? Can't hide nothing from you can we, in those terms then we can go around killing whoever we like because it doesn't matter they are dead now, just tough luck ain't it o well I like it how you can't answer any other point in my post no surprise their Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 But what bout the person he killed ? What about that persons family ? Tragically, as I'm sure you know we can't resurrect the dead. Their family will bear a burden of grief that will stay with them. ---------- Post added 26-02-2013 at 18:42 ---------- Can't hide nothing from you can we, in those terms then we can go around killing whoever we like because it doesn't matter they are dead now, just tough luck ain't it o well Do you genuinely not realise how illogical and silly you sound saying that? Accepting the truth that you can't bring the dead back to life doesn't mean that we shouldn't care about killing people. Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Tragically, as I'm sure you know we can't resurrect the dead. Their family will bear a burden of grief that will stay with them. Do you not think their grief will be easier to bear if they know the perpetrator is behind bars and not walking the streets and enjoying life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Are you ready to add anything or just carry on confronting me and upsetting me and generally talking rubbish The analogy was there. Do you think it was easy to be confined as a CHILD? work 12 hours a day in a sweat shop and fed gruel? Probably beaten daily if not sexually abused by your overseers? Victorian penal punishment was most likely VERY difficult..yet they went back for more..= harsh punishment it seems didn't work. Yet you advocate an equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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