ECCOnoob Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Nice rant but show us the evidence so we can assess it. If you can provide some evidence I might just decide this isn't just some silly idea you've got in your head that you can use to make yourself angry when you feel you need to get angry about something. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2151202/Im-claiming-50k-benefits-I-dont-need-Shameless-mother-admits-fiddling--says-NEVER-stop.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246104/Unemployed-single-mother-benefits-spends-2-000-Christmas-20-presents-children.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3749964/Mum-on-30k-a-year-in-benefits-seeks-charity-aid.html http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100159041/like-father-like-son-how-unemployment-in-one-generation-turns-up-again-in-the-next/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 At what age should they become independent of their parents? It doesn't matter. At the point they do, that's when the parents have succesfully raised a child. And should their parents remain independent of them? Until they are old and need their children to provide for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckolad Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Of course the poor should have children. The OP is a prize chump. why if they don't work, why should the state pay Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ah, no. You've got it completely wrong. We should all contribute to producing and nurturing the next generations. It's a good use of taxation. I don't doubt there are some irresponsible parents - not everybody is perfect and of course any welfare system will not be perfect either. Every welfare system creates perverse incentives in some way. What I would like to see is evidence that the problem being discussed is a real problem in this country. Nobody can produce any evidence though. But imagine if they could and it turned out that 0.1% of benefit spend was wasted in this way then I would suggest that you should move on and worry about something else, accepting this as a rough edge to the benefits system of which there will be many. Provide some evidence and let's discuss it. Now you're just having a laugh. We're not talking about a good use of taxation. Training, education and job provision is a good use of taxation. Healthcare and keeping people safe is a good use. Providing for people who have children irresponsibly and can't be bothered to financially provide for them is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2151202/Im-claiming-50k-benefits-I-dont-need-Shameless-mother-admits-fiddling--says-NEVER-stop.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246104/Unemployed-single-mother-benefits-spends-2-000-Christmas-20-presents-children.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3749964/Mum-on-30k-a-year-in-benefits-seeks-charity-aid.html http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100159041/like-father-like-son-how-unemployment-in-one-generation-turns-up-again-in-the-next/ That's not evidence. That's right wing press articles that feed your prejudices. Even the telegraph one is nutty - read the first comment after the article. ---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 13:46 ---------- Now you're just having a laugh. We're not talking about a good use of taxation. Training, education and job provision is a good use of taxation. Healthcare and keeping people safe is a good use. Providing for people who have children irresponsibly and can't be bothered to financially provide for them is not. But how widespread is this problem? You don't seem to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 That's not evidence. That's right wing press articles that feed your prejudices. Even the telegraph one is nutty - read the first comment after the article. You need to climb out of your ivory tower if you want evidence; my guess is you will only believe it when you see it for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 You need to climb out of your ivory tower if you want evidence; my guess is you will only believe it when you see it for yourself. I'm not in an ivory tower, just a little baffled that a succession of posters on this thread cannot provide any solid evidence to back up their arguments. It should be easy shouldn't it? As stated above I've no doubt the benefits system is abused by some. I'm just curious as to what the level of abuse is in the context of this argument. Like I said if it was miniscule then there are other much more important things to worry about - how to control the housing benefits bill and how to meet rising pensions costs are examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I'm not in an ivory tower, just a little baffled that a succession of posters on this thread cannot provide any solid evidence to back up their arguments. It should be easy shouldn't it? As stated above I've no doubt the benefits system is abused by some. I'm just curious as to what the level of abuse is in the context of this argument. Like I said if it was miniscule then there are other much more important things to worry about - how to control the housing benefits bill and how to meet rising pensions costs are examples. What would you like us to do, go round the neighbours and ask them for a statement, and maybe take some pictures of them? I could take you to at least a dozen families that keep having children despite never working. Each generation does the same, at 15/16 they start having children and the cycle continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 What would you like us to do, go round the neighbours and ask them for a statement, and maybe take some pictures of them? I could take you to at least a dozen families that keep having children despite never working. Each generation does the same, at 15/16 they start having children and the cycle continues. No mate, I don't want anecdotal evidence. We could all probably identify somebody who we thought was popping out kids for benefits. I want solid evidence that shows how much of welfare spend is wasted by people doing this. I suspect it is going to be a miniscule percentage of the total but I'm happy to be proven wrong. And all that will take is some proper evidence. Not seen any yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 No mate, I don't want anecdotal evidence. We could all probably identify somebody who we thought was popping out kids for benefits. I want solid evidence that shows how much of welfare spend is wasted by people doing this. I suspect it is going to be a miniscule percentage of the total but I'm happy to be proven wrong. And all that will take is some proper evidence. Not seen any yet. The likes of MrSmith don't 'do' real facts. They prefer to rely on very imprecise language, rumour, and their own sometimes frankly bizarre opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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