Scroungers, just scroungers, do you admire them?

[Cyclone]

So shareholders have power to get the money from these thieving, corrupt corporations do they? Well not quite, as investing cost money, and charges tend to reduce profits. Playing with figures is fun, what can appear as profit, can with the stroke of a pen become a loss, and everyone looses in the finance game except the people running the show.

 

The game is simple, you get the money from insurance, pension funds and invest it....but ...you also invest your own funds too, so the lot is invested together.

 

Money like figures has no real identity and numbers are just that, so can be influenced. When its time to retrieve all the investments, where shares and things are bought and sold in microseconds, millions of trades, trading in complex ways, what comes out is money. A clever trader then separated their money from the rest, and with profits of course, to get those bonuses of course...silly. The losses well you get it, I mean the insurance and other outsider investors take the losses, and best of all, the silly organisations not only take the losses, but get charged a fee for every transaction as well. Taking sweets from babies is far more complex.

 

So its a game, where you, loose and the finance traders win. So who invest for you, or are you not a sucker and do it yourself? On the other hand just keep kidding yourself, and they care, and are honest, forget the fines, the frauds, underneath they really care.

 

So in the world according to you only the people who trade shares actually make money from trading shares.

Presumably you don't know that they act on the advice from the people who study the market, and it's illegal for most of the people involved in the industry to actually invest their own money.

 

---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 18:27 ----------

 

but what infrastructure? HS2. thats a white elephnat already, knocking 30 mins travel time off and do do that whats the estimate? 30,billion. you can bet that will double these things always do, and what about the time scale? twenty years or more before you can get off in leeds. its a huge waste, and who will pay the extra rail fare? of course joe public.

it would be much better to invest in our energy needs, we all need energy and the price is just sky rocketing. and what about our roads they are still the worst in northern Europe. we all use them why not spend on improving them for the good of everyone. and of course i am sure more people would be employed building them instead of a trainline

 

So we should just stick with the aging Victorian train infrastucture we have, whilst the rest of europe and indeed the world invests in newer, faster, more efficient trains...

 

---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 18:28 ----------

 

It could do. As an example if corporation tax take was increased by 10% meaning that 10% was no longer being funnelled off shore but instead spent on domestic infrastructure then it could be of enormous benefit to the economy.

 

Only if you make your analysis so simplistic though. In reality by increasing corporation tax you encourage the kind of tax avoidance that you don't like. You also make the UK a less attractive place to do business and so companies expand and invest elsewhere. Your overall economic benefit could well be negative...

 

---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 18:30 ----------

 

if these companies also payed tax at the same rate as normal people just think what the outcome would be

 

Companies have never been taxed at the same rate as individuals. A tax on income and a tax on profit are fundamentally different.

 

---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 18:31 ----------

 

 

They don't save that money do they? just by going down the shops and buying a newspaper and some fags is contributing to the economy. 1. the shop owner and shop 2. taxes.

 

 

The money would be spent either way, by the person who claimed it in benefit, or by the government on a service.

 

The person claiming benefit is a net drain on the economy, they contribute nothing and they consume.

[I1L2T3]

Only if you make your analysis so simplistic though. In reality by increasing corporation tax you encourage the kind of tax avoidance that you don't like. You also make the UK a less attractive place to do business and so companies expand and invest elsewhere. Your overall economic benefit could well be negative...

 

Sure. It wasn't really analysis but just a brief example of how tax could be used. Like you say it is important to get the balance right.

[Cyclone]

Sure. It wasn't really analysis but just a brief example of how tax could be used. Like you say it is important to get the balance right.

 

Which becomes the 20 billion pound question, and there is no real 'right' answer, there are just opinions. Unfortunately for the economy.

[TJC1]

It’s not a small group of people though, its insurance companies, pension funds, ordinary people that are the shareholders, anyone can buy shares and benefits from the profits of large companies.

 

What like rbs. The public have seen nothing back for It's money.

[gnvqsos]

Which becomes the 20 billion pound question, and there is no real 'right' answer, there are just opinions. Unfortunately for the economy.

 

The people who work in finance are free to use their own income.Speculators borrow shares they feel will fall in value.They sell the shares and buy them back at a lower price,pocketing the difference.They contribute nothing but amass fortunes my manipulating(ramping) the market.Others buy shares and then hold them to sell at a higher price.They sell these shares and pocket the difference.It is risky but with some insider trading it can be minimised.

[LeMaquis]

Many things increase in price when they are in demand, food and fuel being good examples, so it turns out they also contribute to higher prices for everyone that does contribute.

 

I take it then that you never buy anything so as to avoid causing inflation.

[MrSmith]

What like rbs. The public have seen nothing back for It's money.

No.................

[Dromedary]

What like rbs. The public have seen nothing back for It's money.

 

The same also goes for the billions of pounds spent on the workfare providers who have only got around 2% of the unemployed back into work and who have failed their targets.

 

Maybe it would be a good start to stop that waste and as a consequence it would lower the benefits drain on the economy at the same time.

[dafodil]

Of course they do, they give lots of bitter people something to complain about to feel good and help certain sections of the gutter press to sell news papers and make money. They also help politicians to con the public with their inaccurate lies so they can stay in power.

 

In any case the number of benefit cheats is unknown as if they were known then they would not get any benefits.

To true, the real scroungers in society are at the very top.

You see them in the press every week in a nice sunny part of the World shaking hands with poor people or lounging around on some paradise of a beach while on official duty.

[Cyclone]

The people who work in finance are free to use their own income.

Many of them aren't free to do that, specifically by law.

Speculators borrow shares they feel will fall in value.

I think you're trying (badly) to describe 'shorting'.

They sell the shares and buy them back at a lower price,pocketing the difference.They contribute nothing but amass fortunes my manipulating(ramping) the market.

It's not necessarily manipulation, shorting has a valid purpose.

Others buy shares and then hold them to sell at a higher price.They sell these shares and pocket the difference.It is risky but with some insider trading it can be minimised.

Insider trading is obviously illegal, it even has a special name for it! If you can show that someone has done it then they'll spend some time in jail, can you show it?