Todays worker against yesteryears worker

[Ms Macbeth]

I think a lot depends on the job and the individual perspective. I've mainly worked in office based jobs so I'm best placed to comment on those. When I left school in the early 60s, that was one of the best jobs for girls who weren't going on to university. However, it was well nigh impossible for women to raise themselves above supervisor level, as all the managers were men. I've done all sorts of administration and accounts based work, much decried by some as 'pen pushing'. I could leave a job and start a new one the next day in the 60s, but by the time I was looking for work in the mid-late 70s, it was much harder, and less well paid. Apart from the few years I had off when the children were young, I've always found work.

 

When I started at 16 as a junior clerk in the council in my hometown, we were expected to do menial tasks as well as learning about the job. I didn't see a problem with that, or with being paid a junior rate. We all lived in the family home until we got married in those days so we didn't need to earn much until we were trained. The downside in working for the council in those days - they didn't employ married women. It was get married and leave!

 

I do think that in many ways work has improved for women. There are far fewer barriers for women in all sorts of occupations.

[retired]

I am in the building trade and loathed the unions in the 70's and 80's for bringing the nation to it's knees. One strike after another and it cost this Country. We lost faith in our own and bought foreign. Jap cars and motor bikes for example.

 

The 80's was tough for everyone.

 

Now, speaking from the building side, there are no employees anymore. Everyone is self employed and it is dog eat dog for work where only the fittest survive. Bring back the companies that had paye workers.

 

The H&S does make sense as 30 years ago builders worked off towers at great height and they had to. Price in for a scaffold and the customer would point blank refuse to pay to prevent someone from falling at their expense! Not that easy these days, employees and subbies know their rights to a accident claim.

 

But the far east is undercutting us. Not only is their H&S more relaxed but they have access to cheaper energy. Europe has signed up to cut CO2 emissions but China, Brazil,India has not neither has the USA. Their industries are not as restricted as we are in producing pollution. Not that I agree with them but it is putting us at a serious disadvantage.

 

Lets think hard about what we are buying and where from.

[mikebatty]

 

I'll take on board certain comments but I can say without doubt that last line is completely wrong unless you are an agency worker (as has been pointed out) or you pay someone off. If you can find evidence to the contrary, please show it.

 

Credit due to you tinfoilhat. Unfortunately , many of the youngsters of to-day don't have the same strength C.V. as you obviously have . All they have is service industry experience ( shop , office and the like ) . With the low wages and job insecurity what chance do they have of providing for a family , getting a mortgage etc. ,. They have nothing to look forward to . Not even enough to provide for a pension at retirement age and ,with the way things are going , they will have very little of a state pension . Our youngsters of to-day have sweet F.A. to look forward to . It is them that have my concern just now .

I wonder just how many of the contributors to this thread have been critics of their unions and now - in all honesty - can claim their criticisms to have been just. Not many I would suggest .Not in sincerity at least .

[ricgem2002]

I am in the building trade and loathed the unions in the 70's and 80's for bringing the nation to it's knees. One strike after another and it cost this Country. We lost faith in our own and bought foreign. Jap cars and motor bikes for example.

 

The 80's was tough for everyone.

 

Now, speaking from the building side, there are no employees anymore. Everyone is self employed and it is dog eat dog for work where only the fittest survive. Bring back the companies that had paye workers.

 

The H&S does make sense as 30 years ago builders worked off towers at great height and they had to. Price in for a scaffold and the customer would point blank refuse to pay to prevent someone from falling at their expense! Not that easy these days, employees and subbies know their rights to a accident claim.

 

But the far east is undercutting us. Not only is their H&S more relaxed but they have access to cheaper energy. Europe has signed up to cut CO2 emissions but China, Brazil,India has not neither has the USA. Their industries are not as restricted as we are in producing pollution. Not that I agree with them but it is putting us at a serious disadvantage.

 

Lets think hard about what we are buying and where from.

well said ive just had a quick google and also found this http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/dec/03/self-employment-switch-saves-construction-industry-millions-tax one of these payroll companies has over hundred thousand "self employed" people on its books

[mikebatty]

I am in the building trade and loathed the unions in the 70's and 80's for bringing the nation to it's knees. One strike after another and it cost this Country. We lost faith in our own and bought foreign. Jap cars and motor bikes for example.

 

The 80's was tough for everyone.

 

Now, speaking from the building side, there are no employees anymore. Everyone is self employed and it is dog eat dog for work where only the fittest survive. Bring back the companies that had paye workers.

 

The H&S does make sense as 30 years ago builders worked off towers at great height and they had to. Price in for a scaffold and the customer would point blank refuse to pay to prevent someone from falling at their expense! Not that easy these days, employees and subbies know their rights to a accident claim.

 

But the far east is undercutting us. Not only is their H&S more relaxed but they have access to cheaper energy. Europe has signed up to cut CO2 emissions but China, Brazil,India has not neither has the USA. Their industries are not as restricted as we are in producing pollution. Not that I agree with them but it is putting us at a serious disadvantage.

 

Lets think hard about what we are buying and where from.

 

I am not getting at you personally but , back in the 70,s and 80,s one of the biggest problems in the building industry , as in many others , black labour was a massive problem . Cash in Hand in order to avoid tax and national insurance . H&S was a big problem for the building industry . It had one of the most notorious accident rates , arguably , higher or second to the mining industry . So I would be careful of your claims .

Secondly , It was not the trade unions which brought this country to its knees . It was the greedy fat cats of industry of that day who can lay claim to that demise . We are still suffering that problem to-day.

I do recall two chancellors of the Heath and Thatcher governments who were lambasted by the press and media for their woefully mishandling of the country's finances .

Thatcher also , gave massive tax handouts to industry from abroad to establish themselves here . They did so for a couple of years and then P****d of with massive bank roll's .

Our problem now is , a younger generation with little or no future . No prospects of re-training or higher education because of fear of incurring massive debts , which they will not be able to afford . A health service which was once the envy of the world , now on its knees . A banking system in absolute turmoil . Infrastructure in abysmal decline etc. etc. etc. You can not blame the trade unions for this mess . But , for those who wish to bury their heads in the sand - go ahead . Sooner or later the penny will drop - may be !

[charliewag]

the early 80s were a tough time. the engineering company i worked for had a few periods of short time working. as i was single with no responsibilities at the time it simply meant more fishing but those with families really struggled.

like bypass blade i've been fortunate to have only been on the dole for one week of my working life (37 years). i was made redundant after 23 years with my first employer. i went to inform the job centre of the situation on monday morning, went for an interview in the afternoon and started a new job the next day. i was laid off a few years later, signed on for a week, then started a new job. a year later this company went into liquidation but the company that laid me off had already asked me to go back due to an upturn in orders so i did and i've been there since.

[ricgem2002]

has he tried to take out a mortgage?

yes he tried to borrow 60 grand on a house he saw and because he couldnt show 3 years accounts they wouldnt touch him.

[Riche]

My experiance is that unemployed building trade workers are working whilst signing on, undercutting my rate. Fire men on a good wage and pension are moonlighting as trades men, also undercutting my rate. I have only income from my work as a joiner and cannot work for the prices the above will work for. My taxes and NI pay for the unemployed and the firemans wages. I cannot claim JSA as my wife works part time. Do I dob in those who are working whilst signing on? do I report moonlighting fire men for working cash in hand?

 

My rate is £8 - £10/hr for the record. It used to be £150/day for a 40 hour week.

[dafodil]

Back in those times quality is what you paid for and, what you got paid for . Now , it is quantity what is paid for and to hell with quality.

You only have to look at the manufacturing industries have done . They have upped sticks and moved to countries where they can manufacture at a pittance by paying slave labour prices and import them - with subsidised tax payers rates -at market prices in this country. And people are daft enough to pay for them . Take Dyson's for example . They make a name for themselves in this country . They move out to Tiwan, make the cleaners for next to nothing , import them back into this country and sell them at vastly inflated prices - just to satisfy their shareholders . People buy them just to say "oooo- I got a Dyson".

Look closer to home , during the steel strike . Hadfields , one of the pride of Sheffield steel works ,was promised by it's director that , if you continued to work through the strike your jobs would be secure .What happened ? As soon as the strike was over the shop was shut and moved to south wales , with the loss of the entire work force . Subsequently , the demise of the entire steel industry .

The tory's , under Thatcher , mounted a war on the unions and the working classes . They destroyed the only protection the working people had . The miners just the same .

Every manufacturing industry was treated with the same brutal contempt to the extent that we are left with only the service industries (paid a pittance )and a banking industry which is allowed to bleed the tax payer and the ordinary people dry.

Because of the attempt of the E.C. to clamp down on the industry and restrict the greed of the banking fraternity on on their immoral bonus payouts , cameron , with the aid of the liberals (watered down tory's ) , they are cry'ing their crocodile tears .Quite frankly , theyhave worked themselves into a corner which they find difficult to get out of . One thing you can be sure of is that , in their attempts they will make sure that their rats will not go down with the sinking ship .

Oh, I am not blaming the working man and woman of this country . They are the only one's with any real loyalty and commitment to this country , as has always been the case . It is the greedy money grabbing so and so's who will stab their own mother in the back for a penny. The working classes have always been manipulated and laughed at by the greedy minority - represented by the lava-tories.

The problem is Mike there is no working peoples political party who can lead us out of this mess.

The alternative was tried in Russia and Germany and failed miserably, the socialist party in the U.K. inafective and destroyed by the media, [controlled by the people in power ]

[ricgem2002]

My experiance is that unemployed building trade workers are working whilst signing on, undercutting my rate. Fire men on a good wage and pension are moonlighting as trades men, also undercutting my rate. I have only income from my work as a joiner and cannot work for the prices the above will work for. My taxes and NI pay for the unemployed and the firemans wages. I cannot claim JSA as my wife works part time. Do I dob in those who are working whilst signing on? do I report moonlighting fire men for working cash in hand?

 

My rate is £8 - £10/hr for the record. It used to be £150/day for a 40 hour week.

sorry to hear of your position but theres 1000s like you in this country all in the same boat. wait while you get the comments about you should be lucky you got a job/and if other people can lower the prices why cant you. oh and not wanting to rub salt into the wounds of the building industry in this country wait while the romanians and bulgarians come in.